[DM-MUG] MIDI

Tue May 5 16:23:48 CDT 2009

We can have a discussion about audio and appropriate use of computers vs modules sometime but I really wasn't trying to get into that topic. I was actually trying to use Garageband as a sound resource.  I thought it would be interesting to test the waters with Garageband but I was not successful trying to use a MIDI controller through a MIDI to USB device.  I don't think that it would be much fun to only use the Mac to input all my music ideas.  The mouse and keyboard (QWERTY) are all good and fine but I like to use a keyboard controller to input my ideas.  Even if my drums just sit there and repeat, I usually input all the drum rhythms myself.  So that is what I was trying to accomplish and was unable.  Also, according to Garageband information that I have gleaned, Garageband does not output MIDI at all.  This is another major problem I have with this program.  The ability to export audio and MIDI so you can work on them with more extensive programs should be a given.  We can get into that discussion at another time if you'd like as well.

I'm actually not practicing any more on Wednesdays but have moved that to Tuesdays.  Unfortunately, if I were to start playing with another band my wife would cut my head off and place them on the shell the other things she cut off.  

We should continue this conversion through our own personal email.

I'd still like a solution to my odd MIDI problem.  No MIDI input was seen at the iMac through a USB/MIDI I/O device.

In a message dated 05/05/09 11:54:21 Central Daylight Time, ka_klick at mac.com writes:
Unfortunately, I believe in those 18 or so years, you've missed a bit   
of a paradigm shift in the music production industry, and that's the   
main thing that's probably making all of this more complicated than it   
needs to be. 

The old model of a MIDI based studio is just about dead. That is: 

Control Chain: 
MIDI Controller --> Computer --> Outboard MIDI modules, Synths etc. 
Audio Chain: 
MIDI stuff  -->| 
          | Mixer --> Effects --> Final 2 track audio destination (Tape,   
DAW etc.) 
Audio Playback  -->| 

Has pretty much become: 

Midi Controller -->| 
          | DAW --> Direct output to "finished" audio file 
Audio sources   -->| 

Most of the sound production tasks that were done via MIDI instruments   
have been taken over by the sound generation capabilities of the   
computer itself. When I use "MIDI" in GarageBand it's pretty much just   
as a control source. All the sound is generated via the mac. While   
it's possible to make it send that back out to external devices, it's   
not really what it was intended or designed to do. I've re-rendered a   
lot of my old projects from the 80s and 90s in GarageBand and some of   
them were pretty complex setups, but I haven't made it try and output   
to any of my old modules (mostly because they sound pretty bad   
compared to the sounds the Mac can make on it's own these days). 

In fact I haven't really had my "MIDI" sound generators in my   
recording rig for several years, and just this weekend was in a live   
situation where we ended up using one of them. It worked OK for live,   
but it probably would have sounded better to have used GB to make the   
sounds on a Mac. 

When I was at CalArts, I had a seminar class w/ Morton Subotnick ( http://www.mortonsubotnick.com/ 
 ) who predicted this shift - back in 1988 - and most of us had a   
hard time swallowing it at the time, but now that I've been working   
"in the computer" for a few years, I find it makes life much less of a   
pain. I've now managed to get 3 CDs out the door (the 3rd should hit   
CD-Baby today btw) and I did them all w/ GarageBand and every one of   
those albums contained at least a modicum of "MIDI" but none used   
outboard MIDI gear - it's all in the machine. Here's a good example   
(for complexity) of what can be done with an old MIDI project if you   
keep an open mind. http://www.macjams.com/song/3254 

I know your style of music, and understand why GB is maybe not the app   
for you (it's limited to 1 tempo and 1 time sig). I have been able to   
work with/around this for myself, but I know you'd have problems. 

Having also used (and loathed) OMS your calling it robust made me   
laugh out loud, then again, you used Opcode products, which I'm sure   
always worked well with it. At least now w/ AM Setup, it's a level   
playing field for all developers. 

btw Chris, are you busy wed. nights? Figured you might be, but that's   
when the band rehearses - we could use another guitarist. 

On May 4, 2009, at 7:27 PM, cmsspace wrote: 
> I'm fairly familiar with MIDI on the old Studio Vision software and   
> have used it almost exclusively for the past 18 years.  I decided to   
> try out a USB MID interface with our newer 20" iMac.  After a couple   
> of frustrating hours trying to work with the iMac through various   
> applications, I have been unsuccessful in receiving MIDI from an   
> outside controller or instrument.  I've tried a couple MIDI   
> controllers as input device including a piano and drum machine. Both   
> of these work correctly and are able to receive and transmit MIDI.   
> The Vista based laptop we own seems to work fine with the USB MIDI   
> port device.  The iMac seems to see and recognize the USB device as   
> a MIDI port with 1 in and 1 out.  I've gone through the Audio/MIDI   
> setup application on the iMac and set up the USB port  to look for   
> MIDI on the appropriate channels.  I've used both the free MIDI   
> Monitor application and the ittybittymidi widget to look for   
> incoming MIDI as well as Garage (garbage) band.  (I call it garbage   
> band because it is seems pretty useless for MIDI.)  The Audio/MIDI   
> setup application was able to send the test MIDI out through the   
> port.  At this point I've given up until I can hear from someone who   
> might have more experience and give me an idea. 
> 
> iMAc 
> 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 
> MAc OS X version 10.4.11 
> 
> 
> The Audio/MIDI setup application reminds me a lot of OMS but not   
> nearly as robust. 
> 
> Any suggestions? 
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-- 
Bryan "ka-klick" Baker 
Singer/Songwriter 
ka-klick at ka-klick.com 
http://ka-klick.com 
http://twitter.com/ka_klick <-- Twitter Feed 

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