[ciapug] Re: Career Suggestions
Matthew Burch
matthewaburch at yahoo.com
Tue May 2 22:45:12 CDT 2006
I want to thank those of you that responded to my request.
I am in the midst of trying to find a day job as I am working nights and weekends right at
CompUSA in the Tech Shop. It turned from a part time job into a full time job with no room for
advancement. I have wanted to attend mettings of the various groups mentioned but working nights
prevented me from doing so.
Do any of you have experience with online schools?
DMACC is still a viable alternative, but I'm afraid I missed the summer semester for financial
aid and will have to wait until fall. I did start a programming course there in '95, but left
because due to the fact that it was for mainframe programming and I knew that I wanted desktop
experience.
Thank you for the offer Daniel, I might take you up on that.
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Looking for guidance (Dave J. Hala Jr.)
> 2. Re: Looking for guidance (afan at afan.net)
> 3. [Fwd: Re: Looking for guidance] (afan at afan.net)
> 4. RE: Re: Looking for guidance (Daniel.Juliano at wellsfargo.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 09:03:37 -0500
> From: "Dave J. Hala Jr." <dave at 58ghz.net>
> Subject: Re: [ciapug] Looking for guidance
> To: PHP List <ciapug at cialug.org>
> Message-ID: <1146578617.2135.356.camel at dsl-69.marshallnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Granted, I work a lot of hours -but its sporadic...
>
> But why would you want to work as a salaried person at company that is
> going to expect you work 60+ hours a week? I've been there, done that,
> and it sucks.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2006-05-02 at 08:30, Blake Norrell wrote:
> > Just a word of advice on Principal: If you have two small children,
> > this is not a good company to work as a developer for. I worked there
> > as a programmer about a year an a half ago, and they expect everyone
> > to put in a lot of time (60+ hours a week is common) and the amount of
> > work or effort you put in has no bearing on this. I have two small
> > children as well, and it really cut into the time I could spend with
> > them.
> >
> > >>> On 5/1/2006 at 5:47 pm, in message
> > <20060501224704.66861.qmail at web53104.mail.yahoo.com>,
> > matthewaburch at yahoo.com wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Pardon for the verbosity of this email.
> > I have been a board leech for a few months now, but I was wondering if
> > the members might mind
> > giving some professional advice.
> > First, some background to set the stage. I am the bread winner of a
> > family of four. At night when
> > I get time from my 4yr old and autistic 3yr old, I have been teaching
> > myself various technologies
> > such as PHP and ASP and programming languages such as C++, Visual
> > Basic and now the .NET framework
> > and some ADO. I have yet to find a distribution of Linux that I really
> > like to get to know well. I
> > have been using computers since 1984 so I am not technically
> > challenged. I started my career with
> > networking and administration about 10 years ago, but have always
> > enjoyed the little bits of
> > programming that I have done and its challenges. I did have my MCSE
> > back in 1999 with Windows NT4.
> > I taught myself enough to pass all of the tests on my first attempt in
> > a 4 week span, though I
> > have never been an administrator in an Enterprise environment. I have
> > zero experience with working
> > in a team programming environment or as a professional developer. I
> > have read numerous website
> > tutorials, and started a decent sized library of various books. The
> > major downside to all this
> > unstructured self education is that most tutorials on the Internet and
> > from books are small and
> > uncomplicated. They teach ideas but not how they are often implemented
> > with real world
> > applications. I taught myself C++ and went to take a night course at
> > DMACC here in Des Moines to
> > try to learn more, but they don't go beyond a 2 semester offering.
> > Unfortunately I was unable to
> > get much from the class as I had already taught myself most of what
> > the class contained and am
> > unable to attend college full time to get a degree.
> > My questions are as follows:
> >
> > .How possible is it to get a programming job at such places as
> > Principal without a programming
> > degree or any certifications?
> > .What suggestions would you offer to help prove to a possible employer
> > that I can do the job?
> > .Do you know of any companies that offer Internships or would consider
> > hiring someone cheaply
> > just to get more experience?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any and all responses.
> >
> > Matthew Burch
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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> --
>
> Open Source Information Systems, Inc. (OSIS)
> Dave J. Hala Jr., President <dave at osis.us>
> 641.485.1606
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:13:32 +0200 (CEST)
> From: afan at afan.net
> Subject: [ciapug] Re: Looking for guidance
> To: ciapug at cialug.org
> Message-ID: <9685.216.248.119.34.1146579212.squirrel at www.afan.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> My story:
> came to New York as war refugee in 1997. Had some programming experience
> from my country (Bosnia) from collage. But, didn't have any certificate
> here, in US.
>
> Was working 6 months in Sprout Communications as internship. Boss found I
> LOVE programming and I'm good and first hired me for 4 hrs/day, and after
> next 6 months 8 hrs/day. After a year I got full time position. For 3
> years jumped from 21K to 48K/year. We got GOOOOOD client (Sony
> Entertainment Pictures" and I built GOOOOOOD portfolio (check afan.net).
> No, it opens almost every door. :)
>
> What I want to say, is EDUCATION is VERY important, not because you are
> going to get some certificates, then you will get some KNOWLEDGE.
>
> It's ok to (pre)plan everything but, actually, you CANNOT plan everything!
> And you have to believe in your luck too. If you want to plan everything
> up front - you will never start. Just GO, start. This moment.
>
> Google for web development/web companies and check internships. Almost
> positive are plenty.
> Also, start building web sites for non-profit organizations. They
> (usually) are short on money a they will be more than happy to have
> somebody to make them a web site for free. Build a web site for your
> community. Build web sites for friends. YOU NEVER KNOW what could happen!
> Believe me, you CANNOT plan everything.
> :)
>
> -afan
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 15:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Matthew Burch <matthewaburch at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [ciapug] Looking for guidance
> > To: ciapug at cialug.org
> > Message-ID: <20060501224704.66861.qmail at web53104.mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Hello,
> > Pardon for the verbosity of this email.
> > I have been a board leech for a few months now, but I was wondering if
> > the members might mind
> > giving some professional advice.
> > First, some background to set the stage. I am the bread winner of a
> > family of four. At night when
> > I get time from my 4yr old and autistic 3yr old, I have been teaching
> > myself various technologies
> > such as PHP and ASP and programming languages such as C++, Visual Basic
> > and now the .NET framework
> > and some ADO. I have yet to find a distribution of Linux that I really
> > like to get to know well. I
> > have been using computers since 1984 so I am not technically challenged. I
> > started my career with
> > networking and administration about 10 years ago, but have always enjoyed
> > the little bits of
> > programming that I have done and its challenges. I did have my MCSE back
> > in 1999 with Windows NT4.
> > I taught myself enough to pass all of the tests on my first attempt in a 4
> > week span, though I
> > have never been an administrator in an Enterprise environment. I have zero
> > experience with working
> > in a team programming environment or as a professional developer. I have
> > read numerous website
> > tutorials, and started a decent sized library of various books. The major
> > downside to all this
> > unstructured self education is that most tutorials on the Internet and
> > from books are small and
> > uncomplicated. They teach ideas but not how they are often implemented
> > with real world
> > applications. I taught myself C++ and went to take a night course at DMACC
> > here in Des Moines to
> > try to learn more, but they don’t go beyond a 2 semester offering.
> > Unfortunately I was unable to
> > get much from the class as I had already taught myself most of what the
> > class contained and am
> > unable to attend college full time to get a degree.
> > My questions are as follows:
> >
> > • How possible is it to get a programming job at such places as
> Principal
> > without a programming
> > degree or any certifications?
> > • What suggestions would you offer to help prove to a possible
> employer
> > that I can do the job?
> > • Do you know of any companies that offer Internships or would
> consider
> > hiring someone cheaply
> > just to get more experience?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any and all responses.
> >
> > Matthew Burch
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:43:52 +0200 (CEST)
> From: afan at afan.net
> Subject: [ciapug] [Fwd: Re: Looking for guidance]
> To: ciapug at cialug.org
> Message-ID: <12051.216.248.119.34.1146581032.squirrel at www.afan.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Wow! Just 10 minutes after my post I got over 50 visits on my portfolio?!?
> Hm, I should put Google Ad there too.
> :)
>
> -afan
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 09:45:49 -0500
> From: <Daniel.Juliano at wellsfargo.com>
> Subject: RE: [ciapug] Re: Looking for guidance
> To: <ciapug at cialug.org>
> Message-ID:
> <C5FC59ADFCD51C44BF5CB7782EAA6B89203EA1 at msgswbiadsm25.wellsfargo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Couldn't help but add to this thread, as I teach Java part time at
> DMACC. Some things to consider:
>
> 1) Do what's been suggested and get a degree. Grab an Associate's from
> DMACC, since you've already had classes there and they're inexpensive,
> and most of the credits will transfer to Simpson / Grand View / etc
> where you can pick up a Bachelor's.
>
> 2) Do whatever it takes to get an internship and/or first programming
> job. Suggestions include:
>
> a) talk with DMACC's career counseling (dunno what their actual
> dept name is...)
>
> b) attend PHP User Group / Linux User Group / Other Language
> User Group meetings and ask if there's any novice developer
> positions available. Most people will be glad to help.
>
> c) hook up with a church or nonprofit and offer to do their
> website. I'd be happy to host it for free, you may get
> similar offers on this mailing list.
>
> d) if the chance at doing tech at your current job is nil, change
> jobs. Try joining help desk or tech support. There are a
> couple temp services in town that hire for tech support - try
> Manpower, Tek Systems (sp?), Robert Half. I was hired as a
> full time programmer after spending 6 mo's on help desk.
>
> Your goal in this exercise is to meet as many people as possible. The
> more you meet, the more likely you are to get an offer.
>
> 3) Lastly, avoid Principal. I had an extremely negative interview
> experience with their HR department, and this is despite having a friend
> who was a hiring manager there trying to get me through the rigamarole.
> I also have friends that work in various Principal branches that are not
> happy with their job, mostly due to poor middle management.
>
> =Daniel Juliano
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
> Behalf Of afan at afan.net
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:14 AM
> To: ciapug at cialug.org
> Subject: [ciapug] Re: Looking for guidance
>
> My story:
> came to New York as war refugee in 1997. Had some programming experience
> from my country (Bosnia) from collage. But, didn't have any certificate
> here, in US.
>
> Was working 6 months in Sprout Communications as internship. Boss found
> I LOVE programming and I'm good and first hired me for 4 hrs/day, and
> after next 6 months 8 hrs/day. After a year I got full time position.
> For 3 years jumped from 21K to 48K/year. We got GOOOOOD client (Sony
> Entertainment Pictures" and I built GOOOOOOD portfolio (check afan.net).
> No, it opens almost every door. :)
>
> What I want to say, is EDUCATION is VERY important, not because you are
> going to get some certificates, then you will get some KNOWLEDGE.
>
> It's ok to (pre)plan everything but, actually, you CANNOT plan
> everything!
> And you have to believe in your luck too. If you want to plan everything
> up front - you will never start. Just GO, start. This moment.
>
> Google for web development/web companies and check internships. Almost
> positive are plenty.
> Also, start building web sites for non-profit organizations. They
> (usually) are short on money a they will be more than happy to have
> somebody to make them a web site for free. Build a web site for your
> community. Build web sites for friends. YOU NEVER KNOW what could
> happen!
> Believe me, you CANNOT plan everything.
> :)
>
> -afan
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 15:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Matthew Burch <matthewaburch at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [ciapug] Looking for guidance
> > To: ciapug at cialug.org
> > Message-ID: <20060501224704.66861.qmail at web53104.mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Hello,
> > Pardon for the verbosity of this email.
> > I have been a board leech for a few months now, but I was wondering
> > if the members might mind giving some professional advice.
> > First, some background to set the stage. I am the bread winner of a
> > family of four. At night when I get time from my 4yr old and autistic
> > 3yr old, I have been teaching myself various technologies such as PHP
> > and ASP and programming languages such as C++, Visual Basic and now
> > the .NET framework and some ADO. I have yet to find a distribution of
> > Linux that I really like to get to know well. I have been using
> > computers since 1984 so I am not technically challenged. I started my
> > career with networking and administration about 10 years ago, but have
>
> > always enjoyed the little bits of programming that I have done and its
>
> > challenges. I did have my MCSE back in 1999 with Windows NT4.
> > I taught myself enough to pass all of the tests on my first attempt in
>
> > a 4 week span, though I have never been an administrator in an
> > Enterprise environment. I have zero experience with working in a team
> > programming environment or as a professional developer. I have read
> > numerous website tutorials, and started a decent sized library of
> > various books. The major downside to all this unstructured self
> > education is that most tutorials on the Internet and from books are
> > small and uncomplicated. They teach ideas but not how they are often
> > implemented with real world applications. I taught myself C++ and went
>
> > to take a night course at DMACC here in Des Moines to try to learn
> > more, but they don’t go beyond a 2 semester offering.
> > Unfortunately I was unable to
> > get much from the class as I had already taught myself most of what
> > the class contained and am unable to attend college full time to get a
>
> > degree.
> > My questions are as follows:
> >
> > • How possible is it to get a programming job at such
> places as
> Principal
> > without a programming
> > degree or any certifications?
> > • What suggestions would you offer to help prove to a
> possible
> employer
> > that I can do the job?
> > • Do you know of any companies that offer Internships or
> would
> consider
> > hiring someone cheaply
> > just to get more experience?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for any and all responses.
> >
> > Matthew Burch
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> ciapug mailing list
> ciapug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ciapug mailing list
> ciapug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>
>
> End of ciapug Digest, Vol 13, Issue 4
> *************************************
>
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