[ciapug] Web Professionalism

Tony Bibbs tony at tonybibbs.com
Mon Nov 28 09:17:48 CST 2005 

Sounds like that sort of thing needs to go into a framework of some 
sort.  You may want to consider making a PEAR package out of it so it 
installs the same way PEAR libs do so the classes are available to all apps.

What you'll soon run into is that sometimes this can even cause problems 
as there is a little thing called namespaces that the PHP dev's have 
chosen not to implement...a topic for another day.

--Tony

Scott Phillips wrote:
> 
> Here's the problem I've been having with my OO approach. If someone has 
> any words of wisdom here, that'd be great.
> 
> Every time I need to work with  a new "thing" (object) I find myself 
> creating a new class that is almost identical to all the others I've 
> written. In fact, when pressed for time, I've been known to save a copy 
> of an existing class, do a find/replace on a number of terms, and then 
> make whatever changes are necessary. So I've got a dozen or more 200-300 
> line classes that are 80% identical (and that's with stuff like db 
> connectivity abstracted out). They all seem to do the same things... get 
> some data, manipulate it, store it, retrieve it. Yeah, I know that this 
> should raise some big red flags in terms of my approach but I keep doing 
> it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 04:49 PM 11/25/2005 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> I agree.  There's not a whole lot of difference so far, but I think 
>> that's
>> because I haven't learned enough to do much else with classes than put a
>> bunch of functions inside them.  I really haven't begun to scratch the
>> surface yet.  I'm inheriting my data connections from a class file, which
>> seems like an easier to do it.  I'm not sure I couldn't have done the 
>> same
>> thing with a bunch of functions in an included file.  I guess the main
>> benefit I'm seeing is that I'm putting a lot more code into functions and
>> putting them in a separate file.  I'm not sure it's OOP that is making 
>> me do
>> that, but I wasn't doing it before and I'm really starting to see the
>> benefit because it makes things a lot easier to figure out when I come 
>> back
>> and look at the code several months later.  I'm giving OOP the credit for
>> that, although I may be off base.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 11:10 AM
>> To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>> Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>
>> I have all kinds of inc files with string formating libraries, database
>> connectivity, listboxes and all that stuff... I have tons of code that I
>> reuse, that code  is kept in include files.  I have my html include,
>> database connectivity include, formatting include, etc.
>>
>> They are just not called "objects" and "classes", they are collections
>> of functions and procedures.
>>
>> I have almost no php code in any of my .html files, in fact I keep all
>> my html and php code seperate.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 09:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>> > I appreciate it.  I think you verbalized it well.  You are still 
>> learning
>> > and your code just reflects the level you are at.  That's exactly 
>> what I'm
>> > doing.  The difference I see is that I frequently do the same things 
>> over
>> > and over again.  I'm frequently writing code to maintain some kind of
>> > inventory table in a database.  I've written class files that 
>> contain all
>> > the code I need for display a drop down list (you feed it the name you
>> want
>> > the input control to have, the value if it has a value, and all the 
>> html
>> > necessary to rending the control.  I've written class files with 
>> nothing
>> but
>> > string formatting functions.  I usually write a class that opens and
>> closes
>> > my connection to the database and then my other classes that 
>> maintain the
>> > tables inherit from that database class.  The more I do it, the more I
>> like
>> > it.  It makes the code modular and reusable.  I'm finding it easier 
>> to go
>> > back and maintain it later.  I'm moving from a procedural model to an
>> object
>> > oriented model, because I've been doing the procedural model for so 
>> long
>> > it's no longer difficult.  When I first started learning PHP, it was
>> easier
>> > to drop all the code directly into the HTML page in the exact spot 
>> where
>> it
>> > was going to perform some function.  Now that I feel comfortable with
>> that,
>> > I'm looking for ways to make the code more modular, and OOP is it.
>> >
>> > Thank you very much!
>> >
>> > Carl
>> > http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>> Behalf
>> > Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>> > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 7:58 AM
>> > To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>> > Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>> >
>> > It's difficult to verbalize. Let me try... I think that procedural
>> > programming is more like the thought process I use.   Not that I don't
>> > sometimes think in "object mode", because I usually do at the beginning
>> > of the process. (that's the curse of us south paws...)
>> >
>> > Usually, I'll conceptualize the problem, then break it into components
>> > (objects)  Typically, I'll start in the middle of the problem and work
>> > my way out. Once I have compartmentalized all my components, (objects)
>> > I'll define each one using psuedo code. Then I'll convert that to code.
>> >
>> > The pseudo code tends to be really linear and that seems to favor
>> > procedural methods. If I had "pre-made" objects, I could probably skip
>> > the definition stage. Then I would be doing OOP. However, most of my
>> > stuff is very, very specific and won't fit well into a generic object
>> > container. ( did I say that?!!)
>> >
>> > Not to be off subject, but I think the key component of the "web
>> > proffesional" topic isn't really about how everyone else is doing 
>> it, or
>> > what the current trends are, but its more about continually learning 
>> and
>> > applying new techniques as they are appropriate in your envirnoment. In
>> > other words, developers need to continually grow and evolve, as do the
>> > systems they maintain.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 19:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>> > > What do you like better about procedural?
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > > Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>> > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:04 PM
>> > > To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>> > > Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>> > >
>> > > I'm not against OOP PHP code, I do a little of it but I still 
>> prefer to
>> > > do procedural.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 16:27, Carl Olsen wrote:
>> > > > I have a question for everyone.  How many people prefer to write
>> > > procedural
>> > > > PHP code as opposed to object oriented (OOP) PHP code?
>> > > >
>> > > > Carl
>> > > > http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org 
>> [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>> > > Behalf
>> > > > Of laith
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:43 AM
>> > > > To: ciapug at cialug.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>> > > >
>> > > > Keeping up is always good.
>> > > >
>> > > > Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way so many good things you
>> might
>> >
>> > > > learn will not be useful for longer than it should take.
>> > > >
>> > > > Laith
>> > > >
>> > > > Chris Van Cleve wrote:
>> > > > > There has been a flurry of articles this week about New Web
>> > > > > professionalism.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > See: http://webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_11.html#a000590
>> > > > > http://webstandards.org/
>> > > > > http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200511/
>> > > > > a_web_professional_can_never_stop_learning/
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I believe in this whole-heartedly. Keeping up with standards,
>> > > > > methodologies, trends, etc. is important as a true 
>> professional. I
>> am
>> >
>> > > > > curious what everyone else's take on this is.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Chris VC
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > ciapug mailing list
>> > > > > ciapug at cialug.org
>> > > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > ciapug mailing list
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>> > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > > ciapug at cialug.org
>> > > > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>> -- 
>>
>> Open Source Information Systems, Inc. (OSIS)
>> Dave J. Hala Jr., President <dave at osis.us>
>> 641.485.1606
>>
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