[ciapug] Web Professionalism

Fri Nov 25 14:24:10 CST 2005

Jerry, you should look into MVC implementations then.  It might make the 
concept of a completely OO application make more sense.  There are a few 
packages worth looking at.  Phrame which is a struts implementation in 
PHP (overkill, IMHO)and there is a framework I wrote called MVCnPHP:

http://www.tonybibbs.com/index.php?topic=MVCnPHP

--Tony

Jerry Heiselman wrote:
> I use and OO style of programming.  I have learned that OO makes your
> code much easier to make portable/re-distributable and I have a
> tendency to go back to my code and try to modify it after months of
> not even looking at it.  OO coding makes this a much easier process
> and you can track error messages and where they cam from.
> 
> I still use procedural programming for the application code instead of
> following the ideal that even your application should be an object.  I
> found that the "application as an object" just never seems to click
> and make much sense to me.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> On 11/25/05, Dave J. Hala Jr. <dave at 58ghz.net> wrote:
> 
>>I have all kinds of inc files with string formating libraries, database
>>connectivity, listboxes and all that stuff... I have tons of code that I
>>reuse, that code  is kept in include files.  I have my html include,
>>database connectivity include, formatting include, etc.
>>
>>They are just not called "objects" and "classes", they are collections
>>of functions and procedures.
>>
>>I have almost no php code in any of my .html files, in fact I keep all
>>my html and php code seperate.
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 09:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>
>>>I appreciate it.  I think you verbalized it well.  You are still learning
>>>and your code just reflects the level you are at.  That's exactly what I'm
>>>doing.  The difference I see is that I frequently do the same things over
>>>and over again.  I'm frequently writing code to maintain some kind of
>>>inventory table in a database.  I've written class files that contain all
>>>the code I need for display a drop down list (you feed it the name you want
>>>the input control to have, the value if it has a value, and all the html
>>>necessary to rending the control.  I've written class files with nothing but
>>>string formatting functions.  I usually write a class that opens and closes
>>>my connection to the database and then my other classes that maintain the
>>>tables inherit from that database class.  The more I do it, the more I like
>>>it.  It makes the code modular and reusable.  I'm finding it easier to go
>>>back and maintain it later.  I'm moving from a procedural model to an object
>>>oriented model, because I've been doing the procedural model for so long
>>>it's no longer difficult.  When I first started learning PHP, it was easier
>>>to drop all the code directly into the HTML page in the exact spot where it
>>>was going to perform some function.  Now that I feel comfortable with that,
>>>I'm looking for ways to make the code more modular, and OOP is it.
>>>
>>>Thank you very much!
>>>
>>>Carl
>>>http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf
>>>Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>>>Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 7:58 AM
>>>To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>>>Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>
>>>It's difficult to verbalize. Let me try... I think that procedural
>>>programming is more like the thought process I use.   Not that I don't
>>>sometimes think in "object mode", because I usually do at the beginning
>>>of the process. (that's the curse of us south paws...)
>>>
>>>Usually, I'll conceptualize the problem, then break it into components
>>>(objects)  Typically, I'll start in the middle of the problem and work
>>>my way out. Once I have compartmentalized all my components, (objects)
>>>I'll define each one using psuedo code. Then I'll convert that to code.
>>>
>>>The pseudo code tends to be really linear and that seems to favor
>>>procedural methods. If I had "pre-made" objects, I could probably skip
>>>the definition stage. Then I would be doing OOP. However, most of my
>>>stuff is very, very specific and won't fit well into a generic object
>>>container. ( did I say that?!!)
>>>
>>>Not to be off subject, but I think the key component of the "web
>>>proffesional" topic isn't really about how everyone else is doing it, or
>>>what the current trends are, but its more about continually learning and
>>>applying new techniques as they are appropriate in your envirnoment. In
>>>other words, developers need to continually grow and evolve, as do the
>>>systems they maintain.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 19:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>>
>>>>What do you like better about procedural?
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>>>
>>>Behalf
>>>
>>>>Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:04 PM
>>>>To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>>>>Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>>
>>>>I'm not against OOP PHP code, I do a little of it but I still prefer to
>>>>do procedural.
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 16:27, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a question for everyone.  How many people prefer to write
>>>>
>>>>procedural
>>>>
>>>>>PHP code as opposed to object oriented (OOP) PHP code?
>>>>>
>>>>>Carl
>>>>>http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>>>>
>>>>Behalf
>>>>
>>>>>Of laith
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:43 AM
>>>>>To: ciapug at cialug.org
>>>>>Subject: Re: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>>>
>>>>>Keeping up is always good.
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way so many good things you might
>>>
>>>>>learn will not be useful for longer than it should take.
>>>>>
>>>>>Laith
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris Van Cleve wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There has been a flurry of articles this week about New Web
>>>>>>professionalism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>See: http://webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_11.html#a000590
>>>>>>http://webstandards.org/
>>>>>>http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200511/
>>>>>>a_web_professional_can_never_stop_learning/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe in this whole-heartedly. Keeping up with standards,
>>>>>>methodologies, trends, etc. is important as a true professional. I am
>>>
>>>>>>curious what everyone else's take on this is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chris VC
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>--
>>
>>Open Source Information Systems, Inc. (OSIS)
>>Dave J. Hala Jr., President <dave at osis.us>
>>641.485.1606
>>
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