[ciapug] Web Professionalism

Fri Nov 25 11:34:34 CST 2005

I don't think OO really inherently makes code more portable or reusable. 
You can write good reusable code using procedural / functional calls, 
and you can write bad code in OO.

IMHO there are times when OO code makes sense, and times when procedural 
code makes sense.

I've seen examples of people writing OO code and abstracting things that 
don't need to be abstracted, and it only serves to obfuscate the code, 
when a simple function call would have given the same results, and would 
have been simpler.

I've also been in the middle of doing a procedural function in PHP and 
wishing I'd done it as OO, because it would have been a better fit.

I have done OO in other languages... and I know the benefits. I haven't 
done a lot of OO in PHP, but I'm planning to do more once I'm using PHP5 
in production, since the OO model has improved.

-dc

Jerry Heiselman wrote:
> I use and OO style of programming.  I have learned that OO makes your
> code much easier to make portable/re-distributable and I have a
> tendency to go back to my code and try to modify it after months of
> not even looking at it.  OO coding makes this a much easier process
> and you can track error messages and where they cam from.
> 
> I still use procedural programming for the application code instead of
> following the ideal that even your application should be an object.  I
> found that the "application as an object" just never seems to click
> and make much sense to me.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> On 11/25/05, Dave J. Hala Jr. <dave at 58ghz.net> wrote:
> 
>>I have all kinds of inc files with string formating libraries, database
>>connectivity, listboxes and all that stuff... I have tons of code that I
>>reuse, that code  is kept in include files.  I have my html include,
>>database connectivity include, formatting include, etc.
>>
>>They are just not called "objects" and "classes", they are collections
>>of functions and procedures.
>>
>>I have almost no php code in any of my .html files, in fact I keep all
>>my html and php code seperate.
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 09:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>
>>>I appreciate it.  I think you verbalized it well.  You are still learning
>>>and your code just reflects the level you are at.  That's exactly what I'm
>>>doing.  The difference I see is that I frequently do the same things over
>>>and over again.  I'm frequently writing code to maintain some kind of
>>>inventory table in a database.  I've written class files that contain all
>>>the code I need for display a drop down list (you feed it the name you want
>>>the input control to have, the value if it has a value, and all the html
>>>necessary to rending the control.  I've written class files with nothing but
>>>string formatting functions.  I usually write a class that opens and closes
>>>my connection to the database and then my other classes that maintain the
>>>tables inherit from that database class.  The more I do it, the more I like
>>>it.  It makes the code modular and reusable.  I'm finding it easier to go
>>>back and maintain it later.  I'm moving from a procedural model to an object
>>>oriented model, because I've been doing the procedural model for so long
>>>it's no longer difficult.  When I first started learning PHP, it was easier
>>>to drop all the code directly into the HTML page in the exact spot where it
>>>was going to perform some function.  Now that I feel comfortable with that,
>>>I'm looking for ways to make the code more modular, and OOP is it.
>>>
>>>Thank you very much!
>>>
>>>Carl
>>>http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf
>>>Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>>>Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 7:58 AM
>>>To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>>>Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>
>>>It's difficult to verbalize. Let me try... I think that procedural
>>>programming is more like the thought process I use.   Not that I don't
>>>sometimes think in "object mode", because I usually do at the beginning
>>>of the process. (that's the curse of us south paws...)
>>>
>>>Usually, I'll conceptualize the problem, then break it into components
>>>(objects)  Typically, I'll start in the middle of the problem and work
>>>my way out. Once I have compartmentalized all my components, (objects)
>>>I'll define each one using psuedo code. Then I'll convert that to code.
>>>
>>>The pseudo code tends to be really linear and that seems to favor
>>>procedural methods. If I had "pre-made" objects, I could probably skip
>>>the definition stage. Then I would be doing OOP. However, most of my
>>>stuff is very, very specific and won't fit well into a generic object
>>>container. ( did I say that?!!)
>>>
>>>Not to be off subject, but I think the key component of the "web
>>>proffesional" topic isn't really about how everyone else is doing it, or
>>>what the current trends are, but its more about continually learning and
>>>applying new techniques as they are appropriate in your envirnoment. In
>>>other words, developers need to continually grow and evolve, as do the
>>>systems they maintain.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 19:45, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>>
>>>>What do you like better about procedural?
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>>>
>>>Behalf
>>>
>>>>Of Dave J. Hala Jr.
>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:04 PM
>>>>To: carl-olsen at mchsi.com; PHP List
>>>>Subject: RE: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>>
>>>>I'm not against OOP PHP code, I do a little of it but I still prefer to
>>>>do procedural.
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 16:27, Carl Olsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a question for everyone.  How many people prefer to write
>>>>
>>>>procedural
>>>>
>>>>>PHP code as opposed to object oriented (OOP) PHP code?
>>>>>
>>>>>Carl
>>>>>http://www.carl-olsen.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: ciapug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:ciapug-bounces at cialug.org] On
>>>>
>>>>Behalf
>>>>
>>>>>Of laith
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:43 AM
>>>>>To: ciapug at cialug.org
>>>>>Subject: Re: [ciapug] Web Professionalism
>>>>>
>>>>>Keeping up is always good.
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way so many good things you might
>>>
>>>>>learn will not be useful for longer than it should take.
>>>>>
>>>>>Laith
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris Van Cleve wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There has been a flurry of articles this week about New Web
>>>>>>professionalism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>See: http://webstandards.org/buzz/archive/2005_11.html#a000590
>>>>>>http://webstandards.org/
>>>>>>http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200511/
>>>>>>a_web_professional_can_never_stop_learning/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe in this whole-heartedly. Keeping up with standards,
>>>>>>methodologies, trends, etc. is important as a true professional. I am
>>>
>>>>>>curious what everyone else's take on this is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chris VC