[ciapug] PHP group and SHOTGUN Meeting Date!

[Chris Van Cleve]

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Scott,

Chris and I have a history of making fun about web development. Don't 
read much into it. Hence all the wink-emoticons.

Web standards actually save time over table designs once you learn how 
to use them, and I have lots of deadlines. Since converting to XHTML 
and CSS, I've been beating them much more easily. Initial development 
isn't much faster, but maintenance afterwards is considerably easier 
and faster with standards. FireFox has nothing to do with it. Certainly 
standards support is better there. The primary focus should be your 
target audience. Only one of my sites doesn't work with IE completely 
and it's that way intentionally. It's also a site aimed at Mac users, 
so I have absolutely no need to code for Win IE users. The site I'm 
currently building is fully standards compliant, makes use of 
cutting-edge methods and renders perfectly identical in every browser 
on every platform that I've tried. I don't believe I used any hacks at 
all to accomplish this goal either, but if I did it's very few of them.

There are a lot of fantastic resources out there to get you up and 
running with CSS templates that work perfectly. I highly recommend the 
SkidooToo layout. Besides, if you want to use "bleeding edge" methods, 
incorporate the IE7 package into your site. It corrects most of Win 
IE's faults.

As for that 90% share bit... It will happen. IE has already given up 
more than 5% of it's stranglehold since FireFox 1.0's release, and the 
constant barrage of popups, malware, spyware, botware, etc. is driving 
more and more people to find alternatives. With the next version of IE 
not due for release until Longhorn ships (Are they still hoping for 
release in 2006, or are they up to 2007 now?) is way too far off.

Where I work, we have one remaining application that requires IE to 
function because they used crappy code to write it. We have given them 
until March 31 to provide a version that functions perfectly in 
Mozilla-based browsers or we will implement their competitor's product 
instead. We will be removing IE form all of our desktop units and 
installing FireFox as part of our Security and Continuity Plan, started 
after 9/11.

Another thing to remember is that IE, even though it came with Windows, 
didn't dent Netscape's market share until they made IE faster and more 
compliant. With no new version of IE on the horizon for more than a 
year, you'll see their market share decline rapidly for the exact same 
reasons it won the last browser war.

Another factor you can discard all you want, but if you've been paying 
attention to the industry you'll understand what I'm saying: Mac is 
gaining market share again and is predicted to garner more than a 
percentage this year alone. (yeah, I know. 1% Who cares, right? That's 
~$1B revenue and places Macs back in line with Microsoft's production 
support minimum) Why doe that matter? Microsoft conceded the browser 
war on Mac OS X already and now new versions of IE will ever be 
developed for it. Cross platform compatibility id important, and that 
leaves Mozilla and Opera.

Damn. Got me on a rant. ;p

Chris VC

On Jan 27, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Scott Phillips wrote:

> Jeeze.  A guy throws together a site for free and this is the thanks 
> he gets?
>
> Standards are great if you have no deadlines nothing better to do than 
> spend hours and hours trying to figure out which hack you need to 
> include to get your other hacks to work so that you site will render 
> in any sort of acceptable fashion.  My pages will stay "transitional" 
> until this bleeding edge gets a tourniquet.  Tables suck, but not as 
> bad as getting pure CSS layouts to work right... at least for now.  
> Talk to me when Firefox has a 90% share.
>
>
> At 05:06 PM 1/26/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>> The new site isn't supposed to look that bad is it? Probably because 
>> I'm on a Mac. The fonts are all wonky.
>>
>> /me slaps Chris for using a table-based layout in this age of web 
>> standards solutions and accessibility. ;)
>>
>> Overall the site is nice though, Chris. I can't make the meeting. 
>> Getting away from work is next to impossible, sorry. I'd only be 
>> available for evening or weekend meetings.
>>
>> Chris Van Cleve
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2005, at 9:49 AM, Chris Hettinger wrote:
>>
>>> Welcome Scott! It's great to know that more people are learning of 
>>> the group and want to participate. I feel that this group is a 
>>> needed resource locally.
>>>
>>> I'd say I am using PHP on a large scale. I work for ENCOMPASS Health 
>>> Management Systems in West Des Moines. Began here 1.5 years ago and 
>>> am soley responsible for the companies Internet site.
>>>
>>> I've introduced two Mandrake Linux Web Servers into this MS shop. 
>>> Have moved their site to Apache and in the last year have launched 4 
>>> Internet web applications and several internal web based apps. The 
>>> Internet applications are used by hopsitals, and doctor's offices to 
>>> submit patient, medical services, and clinical information for 
>>> review and authorization of care. The applications use both MySQL 
>>> and MSSQL databases.
>>>
>>> In addition I provide freelance development services in which I use 
>>> MySQL/PHP exclusively.
>>>
>>> ---- SITE REDEVELOPMENT ----
>>>
>>> In addition to the topic about the group. About a year ago I make a 
>>> attempt to reorganize our group however I didn't acheive my goal. 
>>> Part of the work I did was to concept and build a new site though it 
>>> never made it to production.
>>>
>>> That's changed! I've recently produced and uploaded the site!
>>> http://www.cialug.org/ciapug/
>>>
>>> You will soon be able to visit the site at ciapug.org once again, we 
>>> need to reregister the domain.
>>>
>>> ---- SHOTGUN MEETING ----
>>>
>>> Now to get this rolling lets meet ! I'm calling a shotgun meeting 
>>> for:
>>>
>>> Tues. February 1st
>>> 11:45 AM
>>> Jason's Deli  (Next door to Hu Hot on University Ave West Des Moines)
>>> Open topic discussion
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope all that are intereted can make it, if you are unable to make 
>>> this meeting at the time selected, don't worry we WILL do this 
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Please, I encourage you to introduce yourself via the mailing list. 
>>> Please include in your introduction a bit about where, why, and how 
>>> you use PHP, as well as what you'd like to see the group provide 
>>> you.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>> -CIAPUG webmaster
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave J. Hala Jr. wrote:
>>>>  I just there are just tons of .net developers out there. Other 
>>>> than me
>>>> and Tim is anyone else out there doing anything on a medium to large
>>>> scale?
>>>> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 16:17, Scott Phillips wrote:
>>>>> I just heard about this group this morning and would support any 
>>>>> sort of revitalization.  Sometimes I feel like I'm using PHP in a 
>>>>> vacuum with all the big corps around here using their fancy-pants 
>>>>> Java or .NET developers.  (I even think ColdFusion has a bigger 
>>>>> share around here than PHP!)
>>>>>
>>>>> In any case, hello, and I hope to meet some of you in the near 
>>>>> future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Phillips
>>>>> Web Developer
>>>>> Cowles Library, Drake University
>>>>> (515) 271-2975
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ciapug mailing list
>>>>> ciapug@cialug.org
>>>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ciapug mailing list
>>> ciapug@cialug.org
>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Scott Phillips
> Web Developer
> Cowles Library, Drake University
> (515) 271-2975
> _______________________________________________
> ciapug mailing list
> ciapug@cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/ciapug
>
>

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