[Cialug] Promotion and Faith. (Was RE: A little something for everyone)

[Jeff Chapin]

Matt,

Considering that this is the *second* email Brian has sent regarding
hiring religious people, and the first email he sent included length of
contract details and wages, it appears that if this is illegal in Iowa,
he already crossed that line. That said, I believe the Federal
guidelines only apply to employers with more than 15 employees -- but I
thought that the exempt employers had to include a standard disclaimer
stating that they are exempt from those guidelines. I am not sure about
any Iowa specific guidelines.

Jeff

On 3/6/2011 10:04 AM, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Josh More
> <MoreJ at alliancetechnologies.net
> <mailto:MoreJ at alliancetechnologies.net>> wrote:
>
>     However, the faith issue is a problematic one.  I've been thinking
>     about it for hours, and I think I've uncovered what the
>     fundamental issue here is.  Our group is about open source
>     software and open source ideals.  We tend to not directly discuss
>     the ideals very often, but they're there nonetheless.  I think
>     that what bothered me the most about this wasn't the clear
>     faith-based slant, but the segmentation of society.  I believe
>     that the intent here was to say that original poster was willing
>     to work on other projects, but is unwilling to devote his personal
>     time to someone that does not share his personal beliefs.  That's
>     fine.  However, the "us vs them" where one side gets time and
>     support and the other side gets cash seems counter to the
>     inclusiveness of our group.
>
>
> Josh, I think you've made the point pretty clearly here. It's
> important to remember the context of this list. On Facebook or my
> personal blog I share my opinions on a variety of topics, including
> religious topics. On this list I share my opinions about Linux (and
> you all know I'm opinionated). That's not to say that I hide how I
> feel about those other topics; anyone who cares to know more than my
> name will quickly know where I stand. But even if "keeping it
> professional" isn't exactly a requirement for this list, keeping it
> about Linux, open source or at least to the technical fringes is a
> good policy. Especially in the communication mediums that are archived
> for the world to see. [1]
>
> I think that Brian crossed a boundary here. I don't think that putting
> your favorite bible verse in the .sig on your e-mail is any more wrong
> than your favorite Franklin quote or even your favorite Karl Marx
> quote. People on this list know that that is the quiet, personal space
> where you can express your individuality (keeping in mind [1] again of
> course).
>
> However, lets say that the original e-mail were actually for a hired
> position. That e-mail would certainly be deemed illegal for most
> employers in Iowa. That alone makes it unprofessional. I have worked
> for an organization who was legally allowed to list certain religious
> views as a requirement and they did not advertise in such a forward
> manner. It is simply asking for people to be offended and make a
> commotion and ultimately, it would not help them. In public job
> postings they listed the name of their organization and their purpose
> clearly, so that no one would be confused, and they clearly told
> potential applicants of their special requirements and their special
> charter allowing them to have these requirements personally during the
> first contact.
>
> But most interesting, they did not usually advertise in such a public
> place. Instead, they relied on word of mouth advertising for help when
> they hired individuals or took on contract work. In other words, they
> were discreet.
>
> Here are a couple extra tips:
>
>  1. Be very sensitive when posting things that look like job posts
>  2. Be even more sensitive when playing (or offering) the role of head
> hunter
>  3. Offensive words should be omitted. If you think someone would be
> offended by a word, don't simply remove a letter and pretend people
> won't be offended. I don't consider "Godly" to be a swear word but
> Brian was apparently concerned and somehow thought removing the letter
> "o" would be gentler. I think instead it had the opposite effect.
>
> As we get ready for politicians to begin their decent on Iowa (as,
> many have) we need to remember that people we interact with can often
> have very different views and perspectives in the worlds of politics
> and religion. These two topics tend to get people charged up more than
> about anything (except maybe shameless promotion of the world's best
> code editor [2]). Realize that e-mails on these subjects sent to the
> public mailing list probably won't be on-topic (or will quickly be
> taken off-topic) nor have any chance of swaying people's opinions. The
> only probable outcome of mentioning either of these two topics even
> casually will be to cause strife.
>
> And lastly, I've found it quite enlightening to expose myself to
> people who have different perspectives on the world. Working with
> people who's views vary from mine, and when appropriate discussing
> them, has helped me better understand and clarify in my own mind what
> and why I feel as I do. I would strongly suggest that Brian would be
> best served by looking for technical merit first and foremost and, I'm
> hoping I'm not stepping out of bounds here, have faith that the right
> candidate will surface.
>
> [1] http://cialug.org/pipermail/cialug/
> [2] Vim. Yeah, I said it.
>
> -- 
> Matthew Nuzum
> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca <http://identi.ca>
> and twitter
>
> "An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
>
>
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