[Cialug] ah, aH, AH...UBUNTU, (excuse me) was, OT: mac-mini?

[Stuart Thiessen]

I did try Ubuntu Live CD for PPC for an old Mac that I had bought just 
for the fun of it.  But the frustration I had with Ubuntu Live CD for 
PPC is that it would only install the system, not do a live CD.  I was 
rather disappointed with the mis-labelling.  And in case you ask, .... 
yes I did check to make sure I downloaded the right ISO. :)

That isn't to say Ubuntu is bad or anything.  I am simply sharing my 
first-time experience with Ubuntu. For that Mac, after I am done 
playing with its OS 9 and backup all my stuff I want to keep, I may 
install Ubuntu, but I just wished that a Live CD would mean a Live CD. 
I had the impression it was like Knoppix. But imagine for those who are 
trying to take their first steps toward Linux and they hear about a 
live CD only to find out it is an installer. That will feel like a bait 
and switch. Either they will drop the whole idea, or they will go ahead 
and back everything up and install it just to see what it is like. But 
for those who just need to experience it first and then install it, 
they will likely drop the idea.  Just something I thought I would 
mention.

I am a great fan of Linux and open source and promote it to others too. 
At one time, I was willing to forgo functionality for free software, 
but I have noticed that it costs me in my effectiveness in my work. So 
I am changing a little in my perspectives to say that if it doesn't 
cost me in effectiveness, my first choice is open source.  Otherwise, I 
have to go with proprietary software to make sure that I am effective 
in my work. I guess that goes back to the values and value discussion.

For me, I guess open source still has to compete in the area of 
effectiveness and feature set if you will draw in the ordinary users. 
Not everyone will buy into the "lose functionality for the sake of free 
software" argument. In fact, I had someone turn down Linux for that 
reason. They felt it was not effective enough and they went back to 
Windows. They preferred the functionality of Windows to the free 
software of Linux. I think Linux is getting there. What I have seen of 
more recent Linux distributions makes me become more interested in 
trying again. But we can't lower the standard of functionality and 
expect ordinary users to agree. Only ordinary users whose pocketbooks 
won't allow Windows or Mac OS X will be willing to make that exchange 
and they might only do that until they can get into the "mainstream" 
computing world. I think that will change someday, but it isn't here 
yet in my opinion.  Yet, I hope it does because I am impressed with 
Linux, I like the philosophy behind open source, and would like to see 
it succeed.

Thanks,

Stuart


On Oct 20, 2005, at 22:05, D. Joe Anderson wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 06:51:13PM -0500, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
>
> [lots of mac-is-good-enough talk]
>
>> I'm a fan of Linux in a server environment, but I'm not yet sold on
>> Linux for the desktop. :) I will be happy to be convinced some day
>> otherwise. :)
>
> One word:  Ubuntu.
>
> Lots more words:  I was skeptical when they announced their
> plans for releases every 6 months, as the record shows:
>
>  http://zgp.org/pipermail/linux-elitists/2004-December/010710.html
>
> but they've stuck to their schedule now for a year, with two
> follow-ups to their initial release on schedule, each one better
> than the last.  What pain there is using it almost all stems
> from codec non-freeness that restricts what they can distribute,
> and there are fairly clear instructions on their non-official
> wiki site on how to remedy even that, pulling packages from
> third-party repositories, assuming one has few moral qualms
> about non-freeness (which, I think, seems to be well-established
> for the Mac fans here).
>
> Granted, I come to Ubuntu, just as Ubuntu comes to the world,
> with a bit of experience of Debian-derived systems, so that may
> make it easier for me, but seriously, compiling my own kernel
> just so feature FOO would work got old for me N years ago, and
> so I appreciate a relatively straightforward, Just Works install
> as much as the next person.
>
> Without Debian, there would be no Ubuntu, and Debian's breadth
> and depth and thoroughness of approach remains unparalled, so I
> remain a Debian man at heart, but dang if me and my barely
> 4-month-old laptop don't like us some Ubuntu.  Got it running on
> some G4 machines, too (them what don't need wifi support for
> routine use, sort of like many minis).
>
> I run lots of OS X, too, for ${DAY_JOB} and despite the price
> premium, a lot of the best parts of that job have less to do
> with OS X and more to do with the burgeoning array of free
> software that folks (carrying Apple's water for them) port to
> the Mac, like inkscape, GIMP, NeoOffice (which is a pee eye gee
> PIG, but what office suite isn't?), PyMOL, xdrawchem, bioperl,
> joe (yay! editor war starts HERE ;-) etc. etc.
>
> The downside are all kernel/OS/interface related--eg, lately the
> downside sits at the feet of the proprietary parts, like when I
> walk into the room and half the machines are hoofies up, with
> their dual G5 cooling fans making like supersonic wind tunnels
> because of kernel panics, or we get this weird login window
> stuff going.  This Does Not Happen to my Linux machines (well,
> OK, every once in a very, very great while).
>
> Eh, it's like Dave says, if it makes you and yours happy to buy
> proprietary software (and I don't care what Bryan says, it is
> proprietary: I know he's clicking on those EULAs like a madman
> at every Quicktime or iThing or security patch update like the
> rest of the MacOS kool-aide imbibing world), then bully for you.
> But, yeah, it's an L in there, not an M (and just HOPE i don't
> get started on saying it should be G/L instead of just L ;-)
>
> -- 
> Joe
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