From tdwalton at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 13:35:43 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:35:43 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] The Anti-Lynx
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904011135p702acd69yfc5ada536f3918f4@mail.gmail.com>

Somebody should invent a browser incapable of displaying text.  Just
graphics.  The Anti-Lynx, if you will.

-todd

From dave at dchamp.net  Wed Apr  1 13:38:30 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:38:30 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] The Anti-Lynx
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904011135p702acd69yfc5ada536f3918f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904011135p702acd69yfc5ada536f3918f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D3B4A6.1040708@dchamp.net>

Todd Walton wrote:
> Somebody should invent a browser incapable of displaying text.  Just
> graphics.  The Anti-Lynx, if you will.
>
> -todd
>   
I thought that was the goal that IE was working towards.

-dc



From nathanism at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 13:41:17 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:41:17 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] The Anti-Lynx
In-Reply-To: <49D3B4A6.1040708@dchamp.net>
References: <e1d8c6520904011135p702acd69yfc5ada536f3918f4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49D3B4A6.1040708@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904011141i5bfdc164pec3623874aa3443c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:38 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:

> Todd Walton wrote:
> > Somebody should invent a browser incapable of displaying text.  Just
> > graphics.  The Anti-Lynx, if you will.
> >
> I thought that was the goal that IE was working towards.
>

http://www.saveie6.com/
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From eric at eric.nu  Wed Apr  1 21:40:49 2009
From: eric at eric.nu (Eric Junker)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:40:49 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Disclosing Apache and PHP version numbers
Message-ID: <49D425B1.2090705@eric.nu>

Is there any reason not to set:
ServerSignature Off
ServerTokens Prod

to prevent Apache from disclosing version information?

And also setting expose_php = 'off' to prevent PHP from sending the 
X-Powered-By header.

Is there any purpose to these headers and why aren't they turned off by 
default? By themselves they do not pose a security risk but it could 
help an attacker to know if you are running a vulnerable version.

Eric


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From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Thu Apr  2 09:03:12 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:03:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
Message-ID: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25 minutes and my 
current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular media. But, 
i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on how 
to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't want that. I 
want an identical copy.

Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip an image 
and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD 
that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use 
cdparanoia for CDs)?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr  2 09:31:12 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:31:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Disclosing Apache and PHP version numbers
In-Reply-To: <49D425B1.2090705@eric.nu>
References: <49D425B1.2090705@eric.nu>
Message-ID: <49D4CC30.2010705@dchamp.net>

You've pretty much answered your own question. At the SANS PHP security 
class I was at this winter, they mentioned that any extra version info 
you give out can be used by attackers to help them find vulnerable 
servers to attack.

I can't think of a good reason really to leave them on. There may be a 
RFC or something that says you're supposed to show it...

-dc

Eric Junker wrote:
> Is there any reason not to set:
> ServerSignature Off
> ServerTokens Prod
>
> to prevent Apache from disclosing version information?
>
> And also setting expose_php = 'off' to prevent PHP from sending the 
> X-Powered-By header.
>
> Is there any purpose to these headers and why aren't they turned off 
> by default? By themselves they do not pose a security risk but it 
> could help an attacker to know if you are running a vulnerable version.
>
> Eric
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   



From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com  Thu Apr  2 09:38:19 2009
From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:38:19 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1534@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>

Yes, I believe you can do what you are asking if the media is free of copy protection.

I'm pretty sure I have done that in the past.  Of course, YMMV.

-Nate 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:03 AM
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> Subject: [Cialug] Na?ve DVD question
> 
> I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25 
> minutes and my 
> current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular 
> media. But, 
> i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on how 
> to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't 
> want that. I 
> want an identical copy.
> 
> Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip 
> an image 
> and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD 
> that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use 
> cdparanoia for CDs)?
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake 
> University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 

From afan at afan.net  Thu Apr  2 09:46:36 2009
From: afan at afan.net (Afan Pasalic)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 09:46:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <49D4CFCC.5050600@afan.net>


Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25 minutes and my 
> current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular media. But, 
> i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on how 
> to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't want that. I 
> want an identical copy.
>
> Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip an image 
> and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD 
> that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use 
> cdparanoia for CDs)?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   

I use K9copy to "squeeze" DVD (movie) to regular DVD. It works fine.  As 
far as I know, the compression (shrink factor) depends of the size of 
the DVD (movie) and it's smaller if the movie is smaller. I'm almost 
positive if you have DVD with 2GB content only, it will not shrink it at 
all, just make a copy.

Afan



From jerry at heiselman.com  Thu Apr  2 09:48:21 2009
From: jerry at heiselman.com (Jerry Heiselman)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:48:21 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Disclosing Apache and PHP version numbers
In-Reply-To: <49D4CC30.2010705@dchamp.net>
References: <49D425B1.2090705@eric.nu> <49D4CC30.2010705@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <45a88bbd0904020748k59750fe8v6b4254e44e654f4d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:31 AM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:

> You've pretty much answered your own question. At the SANS PHP security
> class I was at this winter, they mentioned that any extra version info
> you give out can be used by attackers to help them find vulnerable
> servers to attack.
>
> I can't think of a good reason really to leave them on. There may be a
> RFC or something that says you're supposed to show it...
>
> -dc
>
>
There is no RFC that I'm aware of that says you need to disclose the
version.  I believe that is really only used by companies like Netcraft that
come out with those reports of how many sites are running Apache or IIS and
how many are using PHP or Perl or <insert you langauge here>.

Just kind of a way to stand and be counted, but I'm sure they don't rely
solely on the headers/version information for that data.


-- 
Jerry
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From kristau at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 13:12:02 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:12:02 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <49D4CFCC.5050600@afan.net>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<49D4CFCC.5050600@afan.net>
Message-ID: <3effba680904021112x5334b01ax15e03b07e7c6bab5@mail.gmail.com>

I recommend k3b for this.  It should do the trick with minimal fuss.

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Thu Apr  2 16:49:10 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1534@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1534@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
Message-ID: <200904021649.11096.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

I tried dd to rip the disc and it worked just fine, thanks. I burned 
(burnt? how does one conjugate "to burn" as used for CDs?) a new copy 
with cdrecord and tested it in a DVD player.

There isn't any copy protection on the disc. I haven't checked to see if 
it has region encoding, but it shouldn't.

On 2009-04-02 at 09:38:19, Nathan C. Smith wrote:
>Yes, I believe you can do what you are asking if the media is free of
> copy protection.
>
>I'm pretty sure I have done that in the past.  Of course, YMMV.
>
>-Nate
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org
>> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:03 AM
>> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
>> Subject: [Cialug] Na?ve DVD question
>>
>> I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25
>> minutes and my
>> current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular
>> media. But,
>> i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on
>> how to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't
>> want that. I
>> want an identical copy.
>>
>> Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip
>> an image
>> and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD
>> that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use
>> cdparanoia for CDs)?
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake
>> University
>> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
>> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>_______________________________________________
>Cialug mailing list
>Cialug at cialug.org
>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From John.Lengeling at radisys.com  Thu Apr  2 17:13:53 2009
From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:13:53 -0700
Subject: [Cialug] NAS Devices
In-Reply-To: <D499C50A-FF8E-40AB-B1CE-BAB58245DE13@imaginarytower.org>
References: <20090328170003.385DFF5F4@www.cialug.org>
	<D499C50A-FF8E-40AB-B1CE-BAB58245DE13@imaginarytower.org>
Message-ID: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D250FC@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>

I ended up purchasing a NetGear ReadyNAS NV+, 4 slot box since I wanted
a COTS solution and I don't have time to roll my own.  Looks like it
runs some Linux as opposed to M$ NAS software.

It is showing up tomorrow...will see how well it works.

johnl

From ka_klick at mac.com  Thu Apr  2 17:26:45 2009
From: ka_klick at mac.com (Bryan Baker)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:26:45 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <200904021649.11096.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1534@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
	<200904021649.11096.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <B26139DD-79AB-4224-B99A-59A3D2A06C2A@mac.com>

Yeah, I routinely make images of the dvd's I've produced and when I  
need a new copy just burn from that.
Much faster than re-encoding all the video assets, etc.


On Apr 2, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> I tried dd to rip the disc and it worked just fine, thanks. I burned
> (burnt? how does one conjugate "to burn" as used for CDs?) a new copy
> with cdrecord and tested it in a DVD player.
>
> There isn't any copy protection on the disc. I haven't checked to  
> see if
> it has region encoding, but it shouldn't.
>
> On 2009-04-02 at 09:38:19, Nathan C. Smith wrote:
>> Yes, I believe you can do what you are asking if the media is free of
>> copy protection.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I have done that in the past.  Of course, YMMV.
>>
>> -Nate
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org
>>> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:03 AM
>>> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
>>> Subject: [Cialug] Na?ve DVD question
>>>
>>> I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25
>>> minutes and my
>>> current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular
>>> media. But,
>>> i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on
>>> how to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't
>>> want that. I
>>> want an identical copy.
>>>
>>> Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip
>>> an image
>>> and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD
>>> that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use
>>> cdparanoia for CDs)?
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake
>>> University
>>> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
>>> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cialug mailing list
>>> Cialug at cialug.org
>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake  
> University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

--
Bryan "ka-klick" Baker
Singer/Songwriter
ka-klick at ka-klick.com
http://ka-klick.com
http://twitter.com/ka_klick <-- Twitter Feed




From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:09:24 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:09:24 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Character Set?
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904021709x133ef3b8hbac9cd5ff6433695@mail.gmail.com>

=EF=BC=AC=EF=BC=AF=EF=BC=AC=EF=BC

What is this garbage?  What character set?  Isn't this something that HTML uses?

-todd

From ewenix at raccoon.com  Thu Apr  2 20:22:19 2009
From: ewenix at raccoon.com (Jeff Davis)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:22:19 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] NAS Devices
In-Reply-To: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D250FC@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
References: <20090328170003.385DFF5F4@www.cialug.org>	<D499C50A-FF8E-40AB-B1CE-BAB58245DE13@imaginarytower.org>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D250FC@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
Message-ID: <49D564CB.4050508@raccoon.com>

I use one of those.  
Only problem I've had is the fan died one day.  Doh!
Fixed the fan, but then three of the drives died within a week.

-Jeff


John Lengeling wrote:
> I ended up purchasing a NetGear ReadyNAS NV+, 4 slot box since I wanted
> a COTS solution and I don't have time to roll my own.  Looks like it
> runs some Linux as opposed to M$ NAS software.
>
> It is showing up tomorrow...will see how well it works.
>
> johnl
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.35/2034 - Release Date: 04/01/09 06:06:00
>
>   

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From bdquick at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 21:36:41 2009
From: bdquick at gmail.com (Brian Quick)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:36:41 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Na=EFve_DVD_question?=
In-Reply-To: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <200904020903.13002.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <49D57639.40809@gmail.com>

I just K3b to make an image, and then copy that to as many DVDs as I
want.  Works for all types of DVDs.

Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> I need to make a copy of a video DVD. It is only about 25 minutes and my 
> current copy is on a DVD-R so i know it will fit on regular media. But, 
> i've never tried copying a DVD before. I've found instructions on how 
> to rip one and re-encode it for smaller size, but i don't want that. I 
> want an identical copy.
>
> Can i treat a video DVD like a data CD and just use dd to rip an image 
> and then cdrecord to burn it to disc? Or is it more like an audio CD 
> that requires more specialized software to rip (i usually use 
> cdparanoia for CDs)?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   

From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Fri Apr  3 10:06:14 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:06:14 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Character Set?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904021709x133ef3b8hbac9cd5ff6433695@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904021709x133ef3b8hbac9cd5ff6433695@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904031006.14918.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

Was this in an e-mail? What encoding is set in the headers?

On 2009-04-02 at 19:09:24, Todd Walton wrote:
>=EF=BC=AC=EF=BC=AF=EF=BC=AC=EF=BC
>
>What is this garbage?  What character set?  Isn't this something that
> HTML uses?
>
>-todd
>_______________________________________________
>Cialug mailing list
>Cialug at cialug.org
>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From ken at bitsko.slc.ut.us  Sun Apr  5 14:38:42 2009
From: ken at bitsko.slc.ut.us (Ken MacLeod)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 14:38:42 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] SMTP Graylisting & Iowa Telecom
In-Reply-To: <49C39C76.3050707@gmx.net>
References: <49C2799D.1000500@gmx.net>
	<7ee95fff0903191440g1b7e43d0s626bfd747b3a3c36@mail.gmail.com>
	<49C39C76.3050707@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <7ee95fff0904051238u2523ebb8s55d490315c244a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Claus <cniesen at gmx.net> wrote:

> Ken MacLeod wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been seeing DNS resolution problems for sites looking up my MX
>> records
>> (e.g. mailing list bounces, mailer retries).  Could be a more widespread
>> problem.
>>
>
> Everything seems to check out for me, even the reverse resolution.
> What in particular about the DNS resolution gives you issues?
>
>
It's hard to pin down.  secondary.com hosts my DNS records (ns1 and
ns2.secondary.com).  When I query my records from some hosts without
specifying a DNS server I get results.  If I query directly to ns1 and ns2
from hosts I have I get my records.  Some other servers don't return any
results.  Using DNS checking sites are mixed as well.  Some are reporting
failures getting results from secondary.com.

  -- Ken
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From newz at bearfruit.org  Sun Apr  5 22:29:53 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:29:53 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] dsmwebgeeks meeting, web application security
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904052029x5e5a7de5o83fd88e7b787483a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Monday evening local security expert Josh Moore will be giving a
presentation at the DSM Web Geeks meeting. He'll be demonstrating the
use of security analysis tools on live sites (get approval from your
company and your site can be tested). Also some common web
applications. After the meeting we'll enjoy some refreshments off
site. The meeting is at 7:00 at Impromptu Studios. Directions are
available at http://impromptustudio.com/location/

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 05:48:13 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 05:48:13 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] dsmwebgeeks meeting, web application security
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904052029x5e5a7de5o83fd88e7b787483a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904052029x5e5a7de5o83fd88e7b787483a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904060348w6bc17c23i938ad8ed82d318c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> Hi, Monday evening local security expert Josh Moore will be giving a
> presentation at the DSM Web Geeks meeting. He'll be demonstrating the
> use of security analysis tools on live sites (get approval from your
> company and your site can be tested). Also some common web
> applications. After the meeting we'll enjoy some refreshments off
> site. The meeting is at 7:00 at Impromptu Studios. Directions are
> available at http://impromptustudio.com/location/

Oh, cool.  That's one of those rent-a-cube office spaces.  I've been
more interested in seeing what that's like.  Moreover, who couldn't
use more Moore in one's life, anyway?

-todd, more serious than not

From tom at tcpconsulting.com  Mon Apr  6 09:40:44 2009
From: tom at tcpconsulting.com (Tom Pohl)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:40:44 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
Message-ID: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'd like to congratulate Josh  
Moore on being the new Deputy Cyber Sector Chief of the Iowa Infragard!

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for mentioning it :)

-Tom


From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 09:44:31 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 09:44:31 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <49D9CEFF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

Thanks Tom, and no, I don't think you'll get into trouble.  :)

Soon I hope to have the passwords to update the website, after which it
will be public knowledge.

 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> Tom Pohl <tom at tcpconsulting.com> 04/06/09 9:40 AM >>> 
Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'd like to congratulate Josh 

Moore on being the new Deputy Cyber Sector Chief of the Iowa
Infragard!

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for mentioning it :)

-Tom

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com  Mon Apr  6 09:44:57 2009
From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 09:44:57 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1555@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>

Bye, Tom.  We'll miss you.

-Nate 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Tom Pohl
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:41 AM
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
> 
> Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'd like to 
> congratulate Josh  
> Moore on being the new Deputy Cyber Sector Chief of the Iowa 
> Infragard!
> 
> Hopefully I won't get in trouble for mentioning it :)
> 
> -Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 

From jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us  Mon Apr  6 10:52:28 2009
From: jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us (Jonathan C. Bailey)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:52:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
Message-ID: <18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>

Everyone-

I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may want to speak about Python. Any takers?

Jonathan Bailey
Marshall County, Iowa
1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Pyowa ideas

Hi,

Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at the most whether we go there or they come to us.

Thanks,

Mike Driscoll
Applications Specialist
MCIS - Technology Center
1 E. Main St. 
Marshalltown, IA 50158
mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
641-844-2802

From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Mon Apr  6 11:11:46 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:11:46 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
References: <18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
Message-ID: <49DA29C2.9060600@foxmediasystems.com>

Jonathan C. Bailey wrote:
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   
Is there any specifics to what they are looking for? I am pretty 
affluent with Python.

-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 11:14:02 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:14:02 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
Message-ID: <49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
received.  ;)

 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52 AM
>>> 
Everyone-

I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
want to speak about Python. Any takers?

Jonathan Bailey
Marshall County, Iowa
1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Pyowa ideas

Hi,

Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG
group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us
to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and
see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at
the most whether we go there or they come to us.

Thanks,

Mike Driscoll
Applications Specialist
MCIS - Technology Center
1 E. Main St. 
Marshalltown, IA 50158
mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
641-844-2802
_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us  Mon Apr  6 11:18:59 2009
From: jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us (Jonathan C. Bailey)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:18:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49DA29C2.9060600@foxmediasystems.com>
Message-ID: <14874399.210601239034739800.JavaMail.root@zimbra>

I'd probably contact Mike directly to see what he's looking for (mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us).

Jonathan Bailey
Marshall County, Iowa
1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Fox" <nfox at foxmediasystems.com>
To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:11:46 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas

Jonathan C. Bailey wrote:
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   
Is there any specifics to what they are looking for? I am pretty 
affluent with Python.

-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Mon Apr  6 11:15:51 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:15:51 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>

Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to come 
hear your speach tonight.

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
> received.  ;)
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52 AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG
> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us
> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and
> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at
> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Mon Apr  6 11:19:16 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:19:16 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <14874399.210601239034739800.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
References: <14874399.210601239034739800.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
Message-ID: <49DA2B84.7020501@foxmediasystems.com>

Thanks I sent him an Email.

-Nick

Jonathan C. Bailey wrote:
> I'd probably contact Mike directly to see what he's looking for (mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us).
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Fox" <nfox at foxmediasystems.com>
> To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:11:46 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
>
> Jonathan C. Bailey wrote:
>   
>> Everyone-
>>
>> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>>
>> Jonathan Bailey
>> Marshall County, Iowa
>> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the LUG group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of us to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group and see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk at the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike Driscoll
>> Applications Specialist
>> MCIS - Technology Center
>> 1 E. Main St. 
>> Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
>> 641-844-2802
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>   
>>     
> Is there any specifics to what they are looking for? I am pretty 
> affluent with Python.
>
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 11:30:34 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:30:34 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net><49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>
Message-ID: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)

Of course, my talk tonight is going to be language-neutral*, because
poor security design seems to be the one thing that all languages have
in common.

* The code scanning tools are, by their nature, not language-neutral,
but the attacks and associated attack tools are.


 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 11:15 AM >>> 
Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to
come 
hear your speach tonight.

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
> received.  ;)
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52
AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the
LUG
> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of
us
> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group
and
> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk
at
> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us  Mon Apr  6 11:38:10 2009
From: jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us (Jonathan C. Bailey)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:38:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <26948337.211421239035890221.JavaMail.root@zimbra>

Did I start a flame war?

Oops..

Jonathan Bailey
Marshall County, Iowa
1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh More" <morej at alliancetechnologies.net>
To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:30:34 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas

Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)

Of course, my talk tonight is going to be language-neutral*, because
poor security design seems to be the one thing that all languages have
in common.

* The code scanning tools are, by their nature, not language-neutral,
but the attacks and associated attack tools are.


 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 11:15 AM >>> 
Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to
come 
hear your speach tonight.

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
> received.  ;)
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52
AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the
LUG
> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one of
us
> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group
and
> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute talk
at
> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 11:38:58 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:38:58 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <26948337.211421239035890221.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
References: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<26948337.211421239035890221.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
Message-ID: <49D9E9A8.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

No, I'm pretty sure it's more of a flame slap-fight.  :)

And I'm also pretty sure I'm the one that started it.  Sorry folks.


 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 11:38 AM
>>> 
Did I start a flame war?

Oops..

Jonathan Bailey
Marshall County, Iowa
1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh More" <morej at alliancetechnologies.net>
To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:30:34 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas

Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)

Of course, my talk tonight is going to be language-neutral*, because
poor security design seems to be the one thing that all languages have
in common.

* The code scanning tools are, by their nature, not language-neutral,
but the attacks and associated attack tools are.


 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 11:15 AM >>> 
Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to
come 
hear your speach tonight.

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
> received.  ;)
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52
AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Everyone-
>
> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>
> Hi,
>
> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the
LUG
> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one
of
us
> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group
and
> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute
talk
at
> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Driscoll
> Applications Specialist
> MCIS - Technology Center
> 1 E. Main St. 
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
> 641-844-2802
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Mon Apr  6 12:56:46 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:56:46 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49D9E9A8.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<26948337.211421239035890221.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E9A8.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <49DA425E.2080206@foxmediasystems.com>

It's ok. I couldn't resist poking at a perl user. :)

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> No, I'm pretty sure it's more of a flame slap-fight.  :)
>
> And I'm also pretty sure I'm the one that started it.  Sorry folks.
>
>
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 11:38 AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Did I start a flame war?
>
> Oops..
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh More" <morej at alliancetechnologies.net>
> To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:30:34 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
>
> Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)
>
> Of course, my talk tonight is going to be language-neutral*, because
> poor security design seems to be the one thing that all languages have
> in common.
>
> * The code scanning tools are, by their nature, not language-neutral,
> but the attacks and associated attack tools are.
>
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 11:15 AM >>> 
>>>>         
> Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to
> come 
> hear your speach tonight.
>
> -Nick
>
> Josh More wrote:
>   
>> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be well
>> received.  ;)
>>
>>  
>>  
>>
>> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>>  515-245-7701
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52
>>>>>           
> AM
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>> Everyone-
>>
>> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that may
>> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>>
>> Jonathan Bailey
>> Marshall County, Iowa
>> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the
>>     
> LUG
>   
>> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one
>>     
> of
> us
>   
>> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group
>>     
> and
>   
>> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute
>>     
> talk
> at
>   
>> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike Driscoll
>> Applications Specialist
>> MCIS - Technology Center
>> 1 E. Main St. 
>> Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
>> 641-844-2802
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 12:59:12 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:59:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49DA425E.2080206@foxmediasystems.com>
References: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<26948337.211421239035890221.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E9A8.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net><49D9E9A8.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49DA425E.2080206@foxmediasystems.com>
Message-ID: <49D9FC75.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

And I had much the same problem.  :)

 
 

-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701



>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 12:56 PM >>> 
It's ok. I couldn't resist poking at a perl user. :)

-Nick

Josh More wrote:
> No, I'm pretty sure it's more of a flame slap-fight.  :)
>
> And I'm also pretty sure I'm the one that started it.  Sorry folks.
>
>
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 11:38
AM
>>>>
>>>>         
> Did I start a flame war?
>
> Oops..
>
> Jonathan Bailey
> Marshall County, Iowa
> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh More" <morej at alliancetechnologies.net>
> To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 11:30:34 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
>
> Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)
>
> Of course, my talk tonight is going to be language-neutral*, because
> poor security design seems to be the one thing that all languages
have
> in common.
>
> * The code scanning tools are, by their nature, not
language-neutral,
> but the attacks and associated attack tools are.
>
>
>  
>  
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>
>
>   
>>>> Nick Fox <nfox at foxmediasystems.com> 04/06/09 11:15 AM >>> 
>>>>         
> Oh so you are a Perl user then...and to think I was going to try to
> come 
> hear your speach tonight.
>
> -Nick
>
> Josh More wrote:
>   
>> I could give a talk... but since I hate Python, it might not be
well
>> received.  ;)
>>
>>  
>>  
>>
>> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>>  515-245-7701
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>>>> "Jonathan C. Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us> 04/06/09 10:52
>>>>>           
> AM
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>> Everyone-
>>
>> I got this rather open request to find someone form the LUG that
may
>> want to speak about Python. Any takers?
>>
>> Jonathan Bailey
>> Marshall County, Iowa
>> 1 E Main St, Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> P: 641-844-2804 / C: 515-988-1021
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> From: "Mike Driscoll" <mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> To: "Jonathan Bailey" <jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us>
>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 2:11:35 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>> Subject: Pyowa ideas
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Last night we thought it might be good to invite someone from the
>>     
> LUG
>   
>> group to come and speak at a Pyowa meeting. If they would like one
>>     
> of
> us
>   
>> to give a talk, that would be fine too. Could you contact the group
>>     
> and
>   
>> see if there's any interest either way? I'm thinking a 30 minute
>>     
> talk
> at
>   
>> the most whether we go there or they come to us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike Driscoll
>> Applications Specialist
>> MCIS - Technology Center
>> 1 E. Main St. 
>> Marshalltown, IA 50158
>> mdriscoll at co.marshall.ia.us
>> 641-844-2802
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com

_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 13:01:05 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:01:05 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904061101j78c199aen51de80a93714a998@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Tom Pohl <tom at tcpconsulting.com> wrote:
> Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I'd like to congratulate Josh
> Moore on being the new Deputy Cyber Sector Chief of the Iowa Infragard!
>
> Hopefully I won't get in trouble for mentioning it :)

Wow, cool.  Congratulations, Josh.  I didn't even know such an
organization existed.  Will this position come with more
responsibility?  More networking opportunities?  It's honorable of you
to protect the mor?s of our community, and I wouldn't mind hearing
more about the InfraGard.  Is there anything at all more Linux related
in your role?

-todd

From tim at netconx.net  Mon Apr  6 13:06:56 2009
From: tim at netconx.net (Tim Berneman)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Run Ubuntu inside Windows
Message-ID: <755501A4F0214627BF756ADA7B5DB6E0@TimsWorkComputer>

I ran across this on LifeHacker today and thought I would share.  Ubuntu now
can run in a window(s) in Windows AND it's portable (a little less that 2gb
with no other apps installed).
 
  http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable-ubuntu-runs-ubuntu-inside-windows
 
I downloaded and installed it and it runs as advertised, albeit a little
slow.
 
Enjoy.
 
Tim :o]
 

 

 
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From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Mon Apr  6 14:10:09 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:10:09 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904061101j78c199aen51de80a93714a998@mail.gmail.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
	<e1d8c6520904061101j78c199aen51de80a93714a998@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA0D16.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>

This position is more of a coordinator than any additional
responsibility.  It'll involve "herding cats" more than anything
technical.


From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr  6 15:10:08 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:10:08 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Run Ubuntu inside Windows
In-Reply-To: <755501A4F0214627BF756ADA7B5DB6E0@TimsWorkComputer>
References: <755501A4F0214627BF756ADA7B5DB6E0@TimsWorkComputer>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904061310y37837714t45075e72c97f4000@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Tim Berneman <tim at netconx.net> wrote:
> I ran across this on LifeHacker today and thought I would share.? Ubuntu now
> can run in a window(s) in Windows AND it's portable (a little less that 2gb
> with no other apps installed).
>
> ? http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable-ubuntu-runs-ubuntu-inside-windows
>
> I downloaded and installed it and it runs as advertised, albeit a little
> slow.
>

I was reading the manual for VirualBox the other day and noticed that
seemless mode should now work with newer versions of X.org. I've not
tried it yet.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr  6 15:13:16 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:13:16 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <49D9CEFF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
	<49D9CEFF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904061313j5916b2efx4fd257000d83d392@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Josh More
<morej at alliancetechnologies.net> wrote:
> Thanks Tom, and no, I don't think you'll get into trouble. ?:)
>
> Soon I hope to have the passwords to update the website, after which it
> will be public knowledge.
>

I found this last sentence to be quite humorous. I'm picturing Josh
running "jack the ripper" as a background task as he wrote the email.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr  6 15:14:17 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:14:17 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904061313j5916b2efx4fd257000d83d392@mail.gmail.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>
	<49D9CEFF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<f3c0b4080904061313j5916b2efx4fd257000d83d392@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904061314p1a68901bt63d6f91e0aa3ae32@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Josh More
> <morej at alliancetechnologies.net> wrote:
>> Thanks Tom, and no, I don't think you'll get into trouble. ?:)
>>
>> Soon I hope to have the passwords to update the website, after which it
>> will be public knowledge.
>>
>
> I found this last sentence to be quite humorous. I'm picturing Josh
> running "jack the ripper" as a background task as he wrote the email.
>

I mean john the ripper.

/me ruins his own attempt at humour...

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr  6 15:21:37 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:21:37 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Congratulations Josh!
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904061314p1a68901bt63d6f91e0aa3ae32@mail.gmail.com>
References: <415099E3-32E4-41D9-B00F-59E171FF18D3@tcpconsulting.com>	<49D9CEFF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<f3c0b4080904061313j5916b2efx4fd257000d83d392@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904061314p1a68901bt63d6f91e0aa3ae32@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DA6451.4030701@dchamp.net>

Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>   
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Josh More
>> <morej at alliancetechnologies.net> wrote:
>>     
>>> Thanks Tom, and no, I don't think you'll get into trouble.  :)
>>>
>>> Soon I hope to have the passwords to update the website, after which it
>>> will be public knowledge.
>>>
>>>       
>> I found this last sentence to be quite humorous. I'm picturing Josh
>> running "jack the ripper" as a background task as he wrote the email.
>>
>>     
>
> I mean john the ripper.
>
> /me ruins his own attempt at humour...
>
>   
/me changes playlist to Black Sabbath - Paranoid to hear "Jack the 
Stripper (Fairies Wear Boots)".

Just guessing that's not Matthew's cup 'o tea.

-dc



From kevin at linuxsmith.com  Mon Apr  6 18:09:52 2009
From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:09:52 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net><49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>
	<49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>

Josh More wrote:
> Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)
> 

Python > Perl
Vim > Emacs
Mercurial > Git
Linux > Windows, OSX

Let the war begin. :)



From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Mon Apr  6 19:01:14 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:01:14 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net><49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>	<49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <49DA97CA.1020005@foxmediasystems.com>

Since this thread was about something else...

Wanted to let you all know I am planning on giving this presentation on 
May 4th after talking to Mark.

Also:

As documented here: http://wiki.foxmediasystems.com

/Programmer: <pro-gram-er> - noun - An unusual cyberbionic organism that 
converts caffeine to computer code./


Kevin C. Smith wrote:
> Josh More wrote:
>   
>> Yeah, Perl is MUCH better than Python.  ;)
>>
>>     
>
> Python > Perl
> Vim > Emacs
> Mercurial > Git
> Linux > Windows, OSX
>
> Let the war begin. :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From nathanism at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 19:18:18 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:18:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fwd: Pyowa ideas
In-Reply-To: <49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra> 
	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net> 
	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>
	<49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net> 
	<49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904061718t6d84f417ha23fa94c93f050c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Kevin C. Smith <kevin at linuxsmith.com> wrote:

>
> Python > Perl
> Vim > Emacs
> Mercurial > Git
> Linux > Windows, OSX
>

Personally agreed on all counts, but I still use git instead of hg.  I think
hg itself has a nicer design, but lots of projects I like use git.  And I
enjoy github.  As a result, I have the git commands memorized anyway.

- Nathan
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From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Mon Apr  6 21:18:06 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 21:18:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug]  OT macmini robot
In-Reply-To: <8b490d600904061718t6d84f417ha23fa94c93f050c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090407021812.374E3E374@www.cialug.org>

http://highearthorbit.com/project/macmini-robot/

-dh

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From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr  6 23:10:57 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 23:10:57 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] like powerpoint but for the terminal
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904062110p2f44f029rf96963e99c3ce1c1@mail.gmail.com>

https://launchpad.net/console-presenter

If you have bzr you can use this command to get the code:

    bzr branch lp:console-presenter

Then run it like this:

    python present.py lightening.txt

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From ka_klick at mac.com  Mon Apr  6 23:27:56 2009
From: ka_klick at mac.com (Bryan Baker)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flamewars (was Fwd: Pyowa ideas)
In-Reply-To: <49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>
	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>
	<49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <C7CF9225-A040-4ABB-B37F-76CA7687EAFD@mac.com>

On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Kevin C. Smith wrote:
> Python > Perl

Not wild about either, but I find typos and looking around for  
misplaced ; and {} hard enough w/o looking at whitespace!

> Vim > Emacs

Vi has 2 modes, beep mode and error mode.
EMACS = Eight Megs and Constantly Swapping.
One more bonus joke for Emacs:

Emacs is a nice OS, too bad they forgot to put in a decent text editor.

Thanks to Champion, I'm afraid I'm stuck on Joe.

> Mercurial > Git

Huh? Oh, got it, sorry haven't had to think about RCS much lately.  
Whatever.

> Linux > Windows, OSX



OSX, Linux > Windows
Fixed that for ya. ;-)

--
Bryan "ka-klick" Baker
Singer/Songwriter
With 2 New CDs!!! See my website for details
ka-klick at ka-klick.com
http://ka-klick.com



From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Tue Apr  7 00:44:06 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:44:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flamewars (was Fwd: Pyowa ideas)
In-Reply-To: <C7CF9225-A040-4ABB-B37F-76CA7687EAFD@mac.com>
References: <22978528.195171238785895533.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<18851472.209511239033148683.JavaMail.root@zimbra>	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<49D9E3D0.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<49DA2AB7.5070005@foxmediasystems.com>	<49D9E7AF.E800.002E.0@alliancetechnologies.net>	<49DA8BC0.5070001@linuxsmith.com>
	<C7CF9225-A040-4ABB-B37F-76CA7687EAFD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <49DAE826.1070205@foxmediasystems.com>

Bryan Baker wrote:
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Kevin C. Smith wrote:
>   
>> Python > Perl
>>     
>
> Not wild about either, but I find typos and looking around for  
> misplaced ; and {} hard enough w/o looking at whitespace!
>   
Naw...all you need is a good editor like geany and your whitespace 
problem is a none issue, so its more like:
ptyhon > perl (for many other reasons than this :) )

>> Vim > Emacs
>>     
>
> Vi has 2 modes, beep mode and error mode.
> EMACS = Eight Megs and Constantly Swapping.
> One more bonus joke for Emacs:
>
> Emacs is a nice OS, too bad they forgot to put in a decent text editor.
>
> Thanks to Champion, I'm afraid I'm stuck on Joe.
>   
Lets make this: nano > Vim > Emacs
>   
>> Mercurial > Git
>>     
>
> Huh? Oh, got it, sorry haven't had to think about RCS much lately.  
> Whatever.
>   
no no...get a real rcs, like bazzar.
>   
>> Linux > Windows, OSX
>>     
>
>
>
> OSX, Linux > Windows
> Fixed that for ya. ;-)
>   
I would insert something here about Windows being better just to stir 
the pot...but not even I can pull it off...
> --
> Bryan "ka-klick" Baker
> Singer/Songwriter
> With 2 New CDs!!! See my website for details
> ka-klick at ka-klick.com
> http://ka-klick.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From tdwalton at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 05:55:08 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 05:55:08 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] OT macmini robot
In-Reply-To: <20090407021812.374E3E374@www.cialug.org>
References: <8b490d600904061718t6d84f417ha23fa94c93f050c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090407021812.374E3E374@www.cialug.org>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904070355s1b9fb60gcbc4a3db2feeb69e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Dan Hockey <icepuck2k at mchsi.com> wrote:
> http://highearthorbit.com/project/macmini-robot/

Ha! Cool.  It'd be neat if they left the computer looking like it
does, plasticy outside and all, so that when you look at it it looks
like the thing that would've sat on your desk actually sprouted legs
(wheels) and walked away.

-todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 05:59:56 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 05:59:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] like powerpoint but for the terminal
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904062110p2f44f029rf96963e99c3ce1c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904062110p2f44f029rf96963e99c3ce1c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904070359w5f26c7a9s16535c03e93d750e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> https://launchpad.net/console-presenter

The web page doesn't say what it does.  What does "console-presenter" mean?

-todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Tue Apr  7 08:51:08 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] like powerpoint but for the terminal
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904070359w5f26c7a9s16535c03e93d750e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904062110p2f44f029rf96963e99c3ce1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904070359w5f26c7a9s16535c03e93d750e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904070651r66b2cccep72af724ae6d41e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>> https://launchpad.net/console-presenter
>
> The web page doesn't say what it does. ?What does "console-presenter" mean?
>

It's not really a webpage, it's a place where you can download the
code. The subject of the email about says it all... it's a tool for
doing presentations from a terminal window.

It's for doing the "one sentence per slide" type of presentation and
has nifty transitions. You can switch gnome-terminal to full screen
mode (F11) and maybe bump the font-size up a notch or two (Ctrl +) and
really wow your audience.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 06:16:16 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 07:16:16 -0400
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>

Not a problem, I say!  I'll just use parted!  So I fire up gparted
from a Live CD and tell it to nuke /dev/sda1 and make /dev/sda2, which
is /home, stretch to include sda1.  That'll give me a 60 GB /home.

It's going *really* really slowly.  It's been running for 7 hours now
and it says it has 10 hours to go.  Man, I don't know what that's all
about.  But I'm a patient sort of person.  So I looked up parted
online and notice that it says that one cannot move an ext3's start.
Which is... exactly what I'm doing.

OMG FEAR

http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/features.shtml

But it seems to be happy doing it, so maybe there won't be a problem.
(No, I didn't backup first.)  Guess I'll just go to work and hope for
the best when I get home.

-todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 10 08:45:27 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:45:27 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904100645v687e51f0s6bc75990d17efb4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 6:16 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I looked up parted
> online and notice that it says that one cannot move an ext3's start.
> Which is... exactly what I'm doing.
>
> OMG FEAR
>
> But it seems to be happy doing it, so maybe there won't be a problem.
> (No, I didn't backup first.) ?Guess I'll just go to work and hope for
> the best when I get home.

Well, today is Good Friday. If your hard drive and data die today,
just wait until Sunday. Maybe it will be resurrected.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 10 09:06:33 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:06:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <5aaed53f0904092038l6cb93debjda65c0490fc910e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f1052e50904092007h3b89bf49ud1d7578930335c59@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aaed53f0904092038l6cb93debjda65c0490fc910e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T
<jeffh at dundeemt.com> wrote:
> I saw this article earlier today
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
>

Doh! I had this exact idea (built in battery backup) back in '98/'99.
I've even mentioned it several people since then. My boss back then
thought I was nuts. My reasoning was why go through the trouble to use
advanced switching power supplies to create 120vac from a 12v gel cell
that will just get converted back to DC by the PCs power supply?

Oh well, glad someone's doing it. How long do you think before we
start seeing this all over the place? Google says they have a patent
on it, but it would just be plain evil to keep such a good idea locked
up, right?

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From jrnosee at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 10:49:09 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:49:09 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f1052e50904092007h3b89bf49ud1d7578930335c59@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aaed53f0904092038l6cb93debjda65c0490fc910e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>

I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for the
entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have a DC->DC
12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion.  Thus eliminating
power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and running all the extra power
supply fans, etc.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T
> <jeffh at dundeemt.com> wrote:
> > I saw this article earlier today
> >
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
> >
>
> Doh! I had this exact idea (built in battery backup) back in '98/'99.
> I've even mentioned it several people since then. My boss back then
> thought I was nuts. My reasoning was why go through the trouble to use
> advanced switching power supplies to create 120vac from a 12v gel cell
> that will just get converted back to DC by the PCs power supply?
>
> Oh well, glad someone's doing it. How long do you think before we
> start seeing this all over the place? Google says they have a patent
> on it, but it would just be plain evil to keep such a good idea locked
> up, right?
>
> --
> Matthew Nuzum
> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
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From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Fri Apr 10 11:08:23 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:08:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

Possible? Of course. Practical? I don't know.

You need very thick wires (thick inch-thick bars of metal) to carry 
enough current at 12V if the distance spaned is very far. If the wires 
are too thin, they will have too high a resistance and drop too much of 
the potential. If the wires are really too thin, they will get hot and 
melt. Making thick enough wires out of copper might be prohibitively 
expensive. Cheaper metals that don't conduct as well would require even 
thicker wires. Of course, if you have a room temperature superconductor 
(presumably made of unobtainium), then it might be more feasible. But i 
don't know much about superconductors; they might have limits on how 
much current they can carry too.

People with more electrical knowledge please correct me if necessary.

On 2009-04-10 at 10:49:09, jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for
> the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have
> a DC->DC 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion. 
> Thus eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and
> running all the extra power supply fans, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From murraymckee at wellsfargo.com  Fri Apr 10 11:22:05 2009
From: murraymckee at wellsfargo.com (murraymckee at wellsfargo.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:22:05 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>

I was thinking that it would be really useful to have 12V power connections on my desktop and monitor so I could just hook up an extra car battery during power outages as a UPS.  Then when it got low you could just take it back out an hook it back up to the car to recharge it.  Unfortunately my laptop runs on 20V so I doubt it would work if I fed it 12V, and might never work again if I connected two in series and fed it 24V.

Murray McKee 
Operating Systems Engineer
WFFIS - Wells Fargo Financial Information Systems 
800 Walnut Street
MAC F4030-037
Des Moines, IA 50309-3605
WORK (515)557-6127 Cell (NEW) (515) 343-6630  FAX (515) 557-6046
MurrayMcKee at WellsFargo.com 
"This message may contain confidential and / or privileged information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein.  If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.  Thank you for your cooperation."
-----Original Message-----
From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08 AM
To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
Subject: Re: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters

Possible? Of course. Practical? I don't know.

You need very thick wires (thick inch-thick bars of metal) to carry 
enough current at 12V if the distance spaned is very far. If the wires 
are too thin, they will have too high a resistance and drop too much of 
the potential. If the wires are really too thin, they will get hot and 
melt. Making thick enough wires out of copper might be prohibitively 
expensive. Cheaper metals that don't conduct as well would require even 
thicker wires. Of course, if you have a room temperature superconductor 
(presumably made of unobtainium), then it might be more feasible. But i 
don't know much about superconductors; they might have limits on how 
much current they can carry too.

People with more electrical knowledge please correct me if necessary.

On 2009-04-10 at 10:49:09, jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for
> the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have
> a DC->DC 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion. 
> Thus eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and
> running all the extra power supply fans, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 10 11:38:24 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:38:24 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904100938p50417222vdab635f20abaaebc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 11:22 AM,  <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com> wrote:
> I was thinking that it would be really useful to have 12V power connections on my desktop and monitor so I could just hook up an extra car battery during power outages as a UPS. ?Then when it got low you could just take it back out an hook it back up to the car to recharge it. ?Unfortunately my laptop runs on 20V so I doubt it would work if I fed it 12V, and might never work again if I connected two in series and fed it 24V.
>

Switch mode power supplies that boost voltage from 12v to 20v DC are
very efficient and only have a few components. You can probably make
one from a kit for about $10 in parts.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From John.Lengeling at radisys.com  Fri Apr 10 11:51:24 2009
From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com><8f1052e50904092007h3b89bf49ud1d7578930335c59@mail.gmail.com><5aaed53f0904092038l6cb93debjda65c0490fc910e4@mail.gmail.com><f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D95@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>

> I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for
the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have a
DC->DC 

>12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion.  Thus
eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and running all
the extra power 

>supply fans, etc

 

This is nothing new...new to IT data centers...but nothing new...

 

Telecoms run -48v DC in their switching centers.  Another example of
something old is now new... I wish I would have thought of it....   

-------------- next part --------------
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From thiessenstuart at aol.com  Fri Apr 10 11:52:11 2009
From: thiessenstuart at aol.com (Stuart Thiessen)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:52:11 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
Message-ID: <6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>

Regarding this, it sparked a question that I have wondered about ...  
at least once a year, I go to different locations in Africa, and I do  
some work there. The group I work with does not have a backup  
generator at their location. African electricity is not always  
"consistent". :) So, I've wondered what would be the best way to have  
a longer-lasting backup battery (than just carrying a charged spare  
laptop battery) so that I could work longer even when power is out.  
Flying out there with a UPS is probably not a weight efficient  
alternative. Would you guys have any suggestions?

I'm using a MacBook Pro if that helps any.

Thanks,

Stuart

On Apr 10, 2009, at 11:22 , <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com> <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com 
 > wrote:

> I was thinking that it would be really useful to have 12V power  
> connections on my desktop and monitor so I could just hook up an  
> extra car battery during power outages as a UPS.  Then when it got  
> low you could just take it back out an hook it back up to the car to  
> recharge it.  Unfortunately my laptop runs on 20V so I doubt it  
> would work if I fed it 12V, and might never work again if I  
> connected two in series and fed it 24V.
>
> Murray McKee
> Operating Systems Engineer
> WFFIS - Wells Fargo Financial Information Systems
> 800 Walnut Street
> MAC F4030-037
> Des Moines, IA 50309-3605
> WORK (515)557-6127 Cell (NEW) (515) 343-6630  FAX (515) 557-6046
> MurrayMcKee at WellsFargo.com
> "This message may contain confidential and / or privileged  
> information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive  
> this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take  
> any action based on this message or any information herein.  If you  
> have received this message in error, please advise the sender  
> immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.  Thank you for  
> your cooperation."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org]  
> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Ramaley
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08 AM
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
>
> Possible? Of course. Practical? I don't know.
>
> You need very thick wires (thick inch-thick bars of metal) to carry
> enough current at 12V if the distance spaned is very far. If the wires
> are too thin, they will have too high a resistance and drop too much  
> of
> the potential. If the wires are really too thin, they will get hot and
> melt. Making thick enough wires out of copper might be prohibitively
> expensive. Cheaper metals that don't conduct as well would require  
> even
> thicker wires. Of course, if you have a room temperature  
> superconductor
> (presumably made of unobtainium), then it might be more feasible.  
> But i
> don't know much about superconductors; they might have limits on how
> much current they can carry too.
>
> People with more electrical knowledge please correct me if necessary.
>
> On 2009-04-10 at 10:49:09, jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>> I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC  
>> for
>> the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have
>> a DC->DC 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion.
>> Thus eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and
>> running all the extra power supply fans, etc.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake  
> University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From John.Lengeling at radisys.com  Fri Apr 10 11:57:32 2009
From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:57:32 -0700
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com><f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com><a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com><200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu><0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
	<6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>

> Regarding this, it sparked a question that I have wondered about ...  
> at least once a year, I go to different locations in Africa, and I do

> some work there. The group I work with does not have a backup  
> generator at their location. African electricity is not always  
> "consistent". :) So, I've wondered what would be the best way to have

> a longer-lasting backup battery (than just carrying a charged spare  
> laptop battery) so that I could work longer even when power is out.  
> Flying out there with a UPS is probably not a weight efficient  
> alternative. Would you guys have any suggestions?

An appropriately sized 12 volt gel cell battery, solar panel, DC->AC
inverter.   Not to bulky.   You can get most of this from Interstate
Battery and Northern Tool & Equipment.

johnl

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 10 12:05:07 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:05:07 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
	<6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 11:57 AM, John Lengeling
<John.Lengeling at radisys.com> wrote:
> An appropriately sized 12 volt gel cell battery, solar panel, DC->AC
> inverter. ? Not to bulky. ? You can get most of this from Interstate
> Battery and Northern Tool & Equipment.
>

A while back I saw a hand-crank charger. :-) Turn a cheese burger into
electricity.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From doncady at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 12:07:03 2009
From: doncady at gmail.com (Don Cady)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:07:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfffc7a70904101007h4fdc2785r98fe886cae2f5269@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 6:16 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not a problem, I say! ?I'll just use parted! ?So I fire up gparted
> from a Live CD and tell it to nuke /dev/sda1 and make /dev/sda2, which
> is /home, stretch to include sda1. ?That'll give me a 60 GB /home.
>
> It's going *really* really slowly. ?It's been running for 7 hours now
> and it says it has 10 hours to go. ?Man, I don't know what that's all
> about. ?But I'm a patient sort of person. ?So I looked up parted
> online and notice that it says that one cannot move an ext3's start.
> Which is... exactly what I'm doing.
>
> OMG FEAR
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/features.shtml
>
> But it seems to be happy doing it, so maybe there won't be a problem.
> (No, I didn't backup first.) ?Guess I'll just go to work and hope for
> the best when I get home.

Guess so.
This may not help now.., but couldn't you do a move operation first? I
don't think it has the same limitation as resize. If there isn't
enough space for what's in /home, I'd nuke sda1, move sda2 forward,
then resize the tail end of it back to where it was.
If there's enough space where sda1 was, make a new one, move
everything over at the filesystem level, kill sda2, resize the end of
sda1 out, then remount /home to it. The less for gparted to do, the
less chance of failure.

Don

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 12:15:26 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:15:26 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
In-Reply-To: <bfffc7a70904101007h4fdc2785r98fe886cae2f5269@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
	<bfffc7a70904101007h4fdc2785r98fe886cae2f5269@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904101015v1e466341ga8e444f8b207cd50@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Don Cady <doncady at gmail.com> wrote:
> This may not help now.., but couldn't you do a move operation first? I
> don't think it has the same limitation as resize. If there isn't
> enough space for what's in /home, I'd nuke sda1, move sda2 forward,
> then resize the tail end of it back to where it was.

Which is exactly what I would have done, had I known about that
limitation beforehand.  I'm not too worried though.  It seems to be
working, and I'd truly expect a program high-class enough to be "GNU"
to stop before it did anything it wasn't capable of doing.

And if it does fail, parted also recovers partitions!

-todd

From atporter at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 12:20:08 2009
From: atporter at gmail.com (Aaron Porter)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:20:08 -0700
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f1052e50904092007h3b89bf49ud1d7578930335c59@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aaed53f0904092038l6cb93debjda65c0490fc910e4@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <667aab920904101020q909a18cse295e0e4949910dc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 8:49 AM,  <jrnosee at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for the
> entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have a DC->DC
> 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion.? Thus eliminating
> power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and running all the extra power
> supply fans, etc.

Rackable in particular do a brisk business in this config space --
they put the big-ass inverter well outside of the datacenter to
"diversify" your heat load. They look sexy, and most gear these days
at least has some sort of DC option (Cisco, Juniper, Force10, etc) but
it does make "greybox" configs a lot harder.

From John.Lengeling at radisys.com  Fri Apr 10 12:20:12 2009
From: John.Lengeling at radisys.com (John Lengeling)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:20:12 -0700
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com><f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com><a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com><200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu><0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp><6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com><AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
	<f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>

> A while back I saw a hand-crank charger. :-) Turn a cheese burger into
> electricity.

Might be hard to find a cheese burgers in Africa... :-) 



From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 10 12:45:09 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:45:09 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
	<6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
	<f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904101045w4028ca53l9eb3e5ba6cd1aa71@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:20 PM, John Lengeling
<John.Lengeling at radisys.com> wrote:
>> A while back I saw a hand-crank charger. :-) Turn a cheese burger into
>> electricity.
>
> Might be hard to find a cheese burgers in Africa... :-)
>

You eat the cheeseburgers before you leave the states. I for one have
built up a hefty energy reserve. I'm sure some clever individual here
can tell us how much usable energy is in one pound of fat.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From mrdovey at iedu.com  Fri Apr 10 13:00:27 2009
From: mrdovey at iedu.com (Morris Dovey)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:00:27 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com><f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com><a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com><200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu><0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp><6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com><AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>	<f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
Message-ID: <49DF893B.50607@iedu.com>

John Lengeling wrote:
>> A while back I saw a hand-crank charger. :-) Turn a cheese burger into
>> electricity.
> 
> Might be hard to find a cheese burgers in Africa... :-) 

Seems like it shouldn't be more difficult that putting a slice of cheese 
on a wildeburger...

:-D

-- 
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/


From dave at 58ghz.net  Fri Apr 10 15:34:25 2009
From: dave at 58ghz.net (Dave J. Hala Jr.)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:34:25 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <49DF893B.50607@iedu.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail .com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <0C42FC22D9143A4F
	A9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
	<6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F4 8CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
	<f3c0b4080904101005i4f49926by144a27c023ae12dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25DA9@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
	<49DF893B.50607@iedu.com>
Message-ID: <1239395665.11609.49.camel@rhel5>

After watching some of Anthony Bourdain's adventures in the wild, I
don't think I want a bush man cooking anything I'm gonna eat.


On Fri, 2009-04-10 at 13:00 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:
> John Lengeling wrote:
> >> A while back I saw a hand-crank charger. :-) Turn a cheese burger into
> >> electricity.
> > 
> > Might be hard to find a cheese burgers in Africa... :-) 
> 
> Seems like it shouldn't be more difficult that putting a slice of cheese 
> on a wildeburger...
> 
> :-D
> 
-- 
___
Dave J. Hala Jr.
President OSIS, Inc.
www.osis.us


From thiessenstuart at aol.com  Fri Apr 10 15:48:15 2009
From: thiessenstuart at aol.com (Stuart Thiessen)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:48:15 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com><f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com><a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com><200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu><0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
	<6D17C6C8-7DFD-411F-8B12-511B9394274C@aol.com>
	<AB9E4E18EAEB9A4E8869F48CB6FE1169D25D9A@OREXCHANGE01.radisys.com>
Message-ID: <FA2C02F2-EB1F-49D6-A53F-E26417A39034@aol.com>

Thanks! I will look that up. :)  Do they also carry the hand crank? :-D

Stuart

On Apr 10, 2009, at 11:57 , John Lengeling wrote:

>> Regarding this, it sparked a question that I have wondered about ...
>> at least once a year, I go to different locations in Africa, and I do
>
>> some work there. The group I work with does not have a backup
>> generator at their location. African electricity is not always
>> "consistent". :) So, I've wondered what would be the best way to have
>
>> a longer-lasting backup battery (than just carrying a charged spare
>> laptop battery) so that I could work longer even when power is out.
>> Flying out there with a UPS is probably not a weight efficient
>> alternative. Would you guys have any suggestions?
>
> An appropriately sized 12 volt gel cell battery, solar panel, DC->AC
> inverter.   Not to bulky.   You can get most of this from Interstate
> Battery and Northern Tool & Equipment.
>
> johnl
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From jrnosee at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 15:51:42 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:51:42 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] OT: Random Parts for Sale
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904101351s371033b3x992cf8f7b39fb896@mail.gmail.com>

Stuff I wanna get rid of.  Trying to snag a little cash for some upgrades.

Here's my computer parts garage sale:

http://www.pcmodcentral.com/Parts4Sale/Parts4Sale_full.html*

*More stuff later...after I sort through the rest of my stuff for what I
don't need.

--Justin
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From jrnosee at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 15:55:27 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
References: <18e3f33d0904091924g2de11eaeh7a0d99268448099d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100706q4fb0805ey8565c2a4259b643d@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904100849v3ccdd594p9af0005e2b19c89f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904101108.23885.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<0C42FC22D9143A4FA9FA3FC2EF5CFA071E4750541F@MSGCMSV21015.ent.wfb.bank.corp>
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904101355i5f834587oa99b45fd1ed8fe25@mail.gmail.com>

Systm recently did an interesting video podcast about using a car batter to
replace a ups battery.  They warned many times that while feasible, was not
the best idea.

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 11:22 AM, <murraymckee at wellsfargo.com> wrote:

> I was thinking that it would be really useful to have 12V power connections
> on my desktop and monitor so I could just hook up an extra car battery
> during power outages as a UPS.  Then when it got low you could just take it
> back out an hook it back up to the car to recharge it.  Unfortunately my
> laptop runs on 20V so I doubt it would work if I fed it 12V, and might never
> work again if I connected two in series and fed it 24V.
>
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From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Fri Apr 10 20:05:36 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:05:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <FA2C02F2-EB1F-49D6-A53F-E26417A39034@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090411010539.8E507E2F3@www.cialug.org>

All you need is a little Uup and could power anything you want...
http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Element_115.htm
-dh



From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 22:43:52 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:43:52 -0400
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904100645v687e51f0s6bc75990d17efb4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100645v687e51f0s6bc75990d17efb4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904102043q5641fb70o593407146c276f3c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> Well, today is Good Friday. If your hard drive and data die today,
> just wait until Sunday. Maybe it will be resurrected.

Yer a riot.  A regular laugh track all your own.  =)

But no need for resurrection; it finished fine.  I told it to do the
same thing for sda7, nuking the swap on sda6.  This time I noticed
that it explicitly says "moving parition left and then resizing
rightwards" (graphically).  So, gparted is smart enough for that.

-todd

From inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com  Sat Apr 11 16:56:18 2009
From: inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com (Matt Stanton)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:56:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] HP mini 1030NR review
Message-ID: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>

Until recently I didn't have a clue what a netbook was.  I've been 
pretty behind the times in keeping up with computer hardware information 
other than the nicer nVidia GPUs.  So, when I saw the other members of 
the LUG at the meetings with those tiny little 'laptops', I just figured 
they paid a lot of money for them.  I have always preferred to put my 
money in my desktop machine, because I can always throw a couple of 
computer parts at a desktop machine when it starts giving up on 
performance... I can't afford to buy the fastest computer on the market 
every year or two.  Anyway, I ended up finding out that these netbooks 
are actually relatively cheap (by cheap, I mean I could buy one for just 
a little bit over what I would spend on a new graphics card).

Well, I ended up getting the HP mini 1030NR from bestbuy.  It came with 
a 16GB SSD, 10.2" widescreen display at 1024x600, wireless b/g wlan 
card, the standard 1.6GHz atom processor, 3cell battery, and an addon 
2GB flash drive that fits neatly into a little slot on the side.  Plus, 
the HP minis are pleasing to look at.  It had XP home installed by 
default, which I wasn't going to let stand.  I charged the battery while 
I downloaded the Ubuntu Netbook Remix and loaded it onto a flash drive 
with flashnul to make it bootable.

The UNR live 'cd' (or live flashdrive?) booted up nicely, and I liked 
the way it utilized the small screen of the HP mini, so I wiped XP off 
the SSD and installed it.  Everything works quite nicely.  UNR detected 
and set up the wireless lan easily (using a broadcom restricted driver), 
and everything but sound is working perfectly.

Now, the sound card works just fine.  I can plug my headphones into the 
jack and hear everything.  The only real problem with the soundcard is 
that I can't get the built-in speakers to play anything.  I suspect that 
they would sound like crap, and the headphones I have are some nice Bose 
deals, so there's no reason to complain unless there was a youtube video 
or something that I wanted to show someone on the netbook.

I'd imagine that a much more versed linux geek would be able to get this 
working with a little hacking around.  It seems from what I've found by 
googling that the netbook speakers problem is fixed in 2.6.29, but 
jaunty is rolling with 2.6.28.  Every time I've ever compiled a linux 
kernel for a modern version of linux, I've managed to break a large 
number of things, so I guess I'm waiting another 6 months.

Anyway, I give it 4.5 out of 5 thumbs up or stars or something.

From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Sat Apr 11 20:34:36 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 20:34:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug]  OT mac floppy drives
In-Reply-To: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
Message-ID: <20090412013450.16B855CF@www.cialug.org>

I have an old mac 8600 that I've been trying to remake a new set of AIIGS OS
disks from the apple ftp site. I managed to make two of them, and now it
won't write or format floppies any more. Is there an external mac floppy
drive that will read/write the old AIIGS format? I figure I would try to
find a drive first then find a newer used mac to use with it. A sneaky
excuse to upgrade eh?
-dh   


From adk at 52761.com  Sat Apr 11 22:04:32 2009
From: adk at 52761.com (Allen Kiddoo)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:04:32 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] OT mac floppy drives
In-Reply-To: <20090412013450.16B855CF@www.cialug.org>
References: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
	<20090412013450.16B855CF@www.cialug.org>
Message-ID: <678823f00904112004q4bfa452co67389a6656b423c5@mail.gmail.com>

I have an old usb mac floppy drive gathering dust. It's yours if you want it.

Allen Kiddoo

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Dan Hockey <icepuck2k at mchsi.com> wrote:
> I have an old mac 8600 that I've been trying to remake a new set of AIIGS OS
> disks from the apple ftp site. I managed to make two of them, and now it
> won't write or format floppies any more. Is there an external mac floppy
> drive that will read/write the old AIIGS format? I figure I would try to
> find a drive first then find a newer used mac to use with it. A sneaky
> excuse to upgrade eh?
> -dh
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>

From dan.sloan at drake.edu  Sat Apr 11 22:32:04 2009
From: dan.sloan at drake.edu (Daniel E Sloan)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:32:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <154921507.344191239506851750.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
Message-ID: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>

As I recall from a power class...at this point many years ago...the electron flow is almost entirely on the outer skin of the cable.  This is why the main lines from the Hoover Dam are hollow.  (saves weight, while allowing maximum transfer)

My grandfather was an electrician at the Montgomery Wards building in Chicago when all the power transmission from the utilities was in DC. So power transfer through a DC bus in a server room should certainly be feasible. 

Dan Sloan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel A. Ramaley" <daniel.ramaley at drake.edu>
To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08:23 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters

Possible? Of course. Practical? I don't know.

You need very thick wires (thick inch-thick bars of metal) to carry 
enough current at 12V if the distance spaned is very far. If the wires 
are too thin, they will have too high a resistance and drop too much of 
the potential. If the wires are really too thin, they will get hot and 
melt. Making thick enough wires out of copper might be prohibitively 
expensive. Cheaper metals that don't conduct as well would require even 
thicker wires. Of course, if you have a room temperature superconductor 
(presumably made of unobtainium), then it might be more feasible. But i 
don't know much about superconductors; they might have limits on how 
much current they can carry too.

People with more electrical knowledge please correct me if necessary.

On 2009-04-10 at 10:49:09, jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC for
> the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only have
> a DC->DC 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the conversion. 
> Thus eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC conversions and
> running all the extra power supply fans, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

From kristau at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 22:51:42 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:51:42 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Parted Feature
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904102043q5641fb70o593407146c276f3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904100416h5b9f71ddm18955463280c831d@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904100645v687e51f0s6bc75990d17efb4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904102043q5641fb70o593407146c276f3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3effba680904112051u80f2ab0i521d22a72f85b1b1@mail.gmail.com>

> But no need for resurrection; it finished fine.

Always, always, ALWAYS have a fall back position.  You were lucky this
time.  Next time, back it up first!

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From dave at dchamp.net  Sun Apr 12 14:15:32 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:15:32 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] HP mini 1030NR review
In-Reply-To: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
References: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
Message-ID: <49E23DD4.5030505@dchamp.net>

I've seen the HP's, they do look nice.

Personally I think I'd like something like the OQO. Rumors are that 
Nokia is coming out with a refreshed version of their MID, the N810 
line... which is nice and small.

If they ever get to retail, I'd still like to get one of the Pandora 
handhelds - it's primarily a portable gaming emulator (which isn't a bad 
thing) but runs Linux, has WiFi and Bluetooth... if it pans out it would 
be a great portable device for us nerds - smaller than a netbook 
(roughly the size of a Nintendo DS), so you could put it in a pocket.

http://openpandora.org

-dc

Matt Stanton wrote:
> Until recently I didn't have a clue what a netbook was.  I've been 
> pretty behind the times in keeping up with computer hardware information 
> other than the nicer nVidia GPUs.  So, when I saw the other members of 
> the LUG at the meetings with those tiny little 'laptops', I just figured 
> they paid a lot of money for them.  I have always preferred to put my 
> money in my desktop machine, because I can always throw a couple of 
> computer parts at a desktop machine when it starts giving up on 
> performance... I can't afford to buy the fastest computer on the market 
> every year or two.  Anyway, I ended up finding out that these netbooks 
> are actually relatively cheap (by cheap, I mean I could buy one for just 
> a little bit over what I would spend on a new graphics card).
>
> Well, I ended up getting the HP mini 1030NR from bestbuy.  It came with 
> a 16GB SSD, 10.2" widescreen display at 1024x600, wireless b/g wlan 
> card, the standard 1.6GHz atom processor, 3cell battery, and an addon 
> 2GB flash drive that fits neatly into a little slot on the side.  Plus, 
> the HP minis are pleasing to look at.  It had XP home installed by 
> default, which I wasn't going to let stand.  I charged the battery while 
> I downloaded the Ubuntu Netbook Remix and loaded it onto a flash drive 
> with flashnul to make it bootable.
>
> The UNR live 'cd' (or live flashdrive?) booted up nicely, and I liked 
> the way it utilized the small screen of the HP mini, so I wiped XP off 
> the SSD and installed it.  Everything works quite nicely.  UNR detected 
> and set up the wireless lan easily (using a broadcom restricted driver), 
> and everything but sound is working perfectly.
>
> Now, the sound card works just fine.  I can plug my headphones into the 
> jack and hear everything.  The only real problem with the soundcard is 
> that I can't get the built-in speakers to play anything.  I suspect that 
> they would sound like crap, and the headphones I have are some nice Bose 
> deals, so there's no reason to complain unless there was a youtube video 
> or something that I wanted to show someone on the netbook.
>
> I'd imagine that a much more versed linux geek would be able to get this 
> working with a little hacking around.  It seems from what I've found by 
> googling that the netbook speakers problem is fixed in 2.6.29, but 
> jaunty is rolling with 2.6.28.  Every time I've ever compiled a linux 
> kernel for a modern version of linux, I've managed to break a large 
> number of things, so I guess I'm waiting another 6 months.
>
> Anyway, I give it 4.5 out of 5 thumbs up or stars or something.
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   


From jrnosee at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 09:07:24 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:07:24 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] HP mini 1030NR review
In-Reply-To: <49E23DD4.5030505@dchamp.net>
References: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
	<49E23DD4.5030505@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904130707w36641acfgb6842357cb05ee2d@mail.gmail.com>

Try googling for HP Mini repository.  You should be able to find the repo HP
has setup for the mini's that come pre-loaded with ubuntu.  I used one to
get the HP mini theme on my laptop.  If you can find it, see if you can get
sound drivers from there.
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From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr 13 09:21:12 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:21:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] HP mini 1030NR review
In-Reply-To: <49E23DD4.5030505@dchamp.net>
References: <49E11202.1080309@brothersofchaos.com>
	<49E23DD4.5030505@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904130721l78a653b1h1357055a10381c40@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 2:15 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> I've seen the HP's, they do look nice.
>
> Personally I think I'd like something like the OQO. Rumors are that
> Nokia is coming out with a refreshed version of their MID, the N810
> line... which is nice and small.
>

I've seen photos of n810 like knock offs in China for under $150
running UNR (or something based on UNR). I think the converted price
is $132. Google for SmartQ.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Mon Apr 13 09:31:47 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:31:47 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
References: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
Message-ID: <200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

What i recall from physics and electronics classes is that how the power 
flows through a cable depends on the potential difference (voltage). At 
low potential, the whole cable is used. But at higher potential, only 
the "skin" is used. That partially explains why it is possible to 
survive being hit by lightning--most of current flows through a struck 
individual's skin and clothes, and not so much through their brain, 
heart, or other vital organs. My understanding of the reason that only 
the surface of the conducting medium carries much current at high 
potentials is that the repulsive forces of the electrons themselves is 
strong enough that they "want" to escape the medium they are travelling 
in. So, they move to the farthest points from each other, aka the 
surface of the wire (or object struck by lightning). It has been 
several years now since i've studied physics, and the flow of 
electricity was certainly not my area of expertise within that domain, 
so my understanding and explanations now are probably only marginally 
better than a layman's.

What was the potential (voltage) on that DC line in Montgomery Wards? 
How about in Hoover Dam? I'd bet in both cases they were rather high 
voltages. 12V for a computer is quite low and will require very thick 
cables to carry much power. P=IE. Power = current * potential. So, as 
potential drops, to carry the same power current has to increase 
proportionately. And higher current requires thicker wires. This is 
also why long-distance power transmissions are done in the 100kV to 1MV 
(or more) range--at 120V, 240V or even 10kV the wires would just be too 
thick. At low voltages (where the skin effect isn't significant) the 
cross-sectional area of the wire determines how much current it can 
carry. At high voltages the surface area is more important. 
Unfortunately i don't have a quick "rule of thumb" to tell at what 
voltage one needs to consider cross-sectional area vs. surface area, 
and it has been too long since i've studied the relevant equations to 
hazard a guess. I've read that some electrocutions are done at 5kV, so 
probably 5kV is still low enough for significant current to flow 
through the medium rather than on the surface.

Note that much telecom equipment runs at 48V DC, but 48V is 4x higher 
than 12V. So, wires with only 1/4 the cross-sectional area can be used 
to carry the same power. If you're talking about wiring a data center, 
that's a big difference in the amount of expensive copper that is 
required.

But unless there's an electrician or a physicist or some other 
knowledgeable individual in the house, i don't know how much more we 
can say about this. I'd like it if data centers could be run off of low 
voltage DC--it intuitively feels like a more elegant solution than 
having an AC/DC converter in each machine. (But then again, intuition 
in areas of physics is often incorrect...) Since PCs need more than 1 
voltage though, i'm not sure how much is really gained by changing the 
1 voltage they are fed from 120V AC to 12V DC; either way some extra 
conversion steps have to be done in the box. Even if it is fed 12V DC, 
and 12V is one of the voltages the machine needs, that 12V would have 
to be filtered in the box to make sure it is smooth enough for delicate 
electronics. I'm sure 12V is possible (i actually have a few low-power 
servers at home that i built which take 12V DC and use a "PicoPSU" to 
convert it), i'm just not sure such a low voltage is an efficient way 
to get power to a rack of high-power servers. Once someone actually 
does it, then the wisdom of the idea should be more apparent.

Maybe we should just switch PCs to require a 15kV AC power feed (aka, 
from a neon sign transformer). Data centers would have a fresh ozone 
scent like after a thunderstorm, and people working on the machines 
would learn very quickly to be careful and not make mistakes with the 
power.

On 2009-04-11 at 22:32:04, Daniel E Sloan wrote:
>As I recall from a power class...at this point many years ago...the
> electron flow is almost entirely on the outer skin of the cable. 
> This is why the main lines from the Hoover Dam are hollow.  (saves
> weight, while allowing maximum transfer)
>
>My grandfather was an electrician at the Montgomery Wards building in
> Chicago when all the power transmission from the utilities was in DC.
> So power transfer through a DC bus in a server room should certainly
> be feasible.
>
>Dan Sloan
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Daniel A. Ramaley" <daniel.ramaley at drake.edu>
>To: "Central Iowa Linux Users Group" <cialug at cialug.org>
>Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08:23 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>Subject: Re: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
>
>Possible? Of course. Practical? I don't know.
>
>You need very thick wires (thick inch-thick bars of metal) to carry
>enough current at 12V if the distance spaned is very far. If the wires
>are too thin, they will have too high a resistance and drop too much
> of the potential. If the wires are really too thin, they will get hot
> and melt. Making thick enough wires out of copper might be
> prohibitively expensive. Cheaper metals that don't conduct as well
> would require even thicker wires. Of course, if you have a room
> temperature superconductor (presumably made of unobtainium), then it
> might be more feasible. But i don't know much about superconductors;
> they might have limits on how much current they can carry too.
>
>People with more electrical knowledge please correct me if necessary.
>
>On 2009-04-10 at 10:49:09, jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>>I've often wondered if it would be possible to convert AC to 12VDC
>> for the entire datacenter then run 12V lines to each server and only
>> have a DC->DC 12V/5V/3.3V Point of Load power supply do the
>> conversion. Thus eliminating power loss in the multiple AC-DC
>> conversions and running all the extra power supply fans, etc.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake
> University Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
>+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
>_______________________________________________
>Cialug mailing list
>Cialug at cialug.org
>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>_______________________________________________
>Cialug mailing list
>Cialug at cialug.org
>http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:23:45 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:23:45 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
	<200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley
<daniel.ramaley at drake.edu> wrote:
> What i recall from physics and electronics classes is that how the power
> flows through a cable depends on the potential difference (voltage). At
> low potential, the whole cable is used. But at higher potential, only
> the "skin" is used.

Wikipedia says the skin effect is due to alternating current.
Specifically, "Skin effect is due to eddy currents set up by the AC
current".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

So, DC wouldn't have it.

> At low voltages (where the skin effect isn't significant)

Low frequencies.

> But unless there's an electrician or a physicist or some other
> knowledgeable individual in the house

I was an electronics technician in a nuclear power plant for about
five years.  But that was many years ago, and I seem to have lost most
of it.  I only remember learning about this phenomenon in class, and
comparing it to the same effect in water flow.  Water flow is higher
around the edges of a pipe than in the center.

-todd

From nathanism at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:29:13 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:29:13 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
	<200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904130829h6bce4106yfa2263272a868c29@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Wikipedia says the skin effect is due to alternating current.
> Specifically, "Skin effect is due to eddy currents set up by the AC
> current".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
>
> So, DC wouldn't have it.
>

I concur.  When I was doing electronics work, we often had to push a lot of
power around in the 100 kHz region, and the only practical way we could find
to do this was to use Litz wire. Litz wire is a bundle of smaller insulated
wires, so that most of the it, even at the core of the bundle, can still be
the "skin".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
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From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:41:37 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:41:37 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Mass Mail Etiquette
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>

I just got an email from a programming user group I'm part of where
the person put all 20-some people on the To: line.  I don't like this
because everyone out there gets my email address.  I stand a much
better chance of getting spam because of it.  But even if I don't get
a single bit of spam more, it's still a matter of courtesy.

Can someone suggest to me good reasons for a person not to put
everyone's name on the To: line of an email?  Reasons that Joe Anybody
would read and nod his head to?

-todd, unrepentant digital mr manners

From eric at eric.nu  Mon Apr 13 10:45:01 2009
From: eric at eric.nu (Eric Junker)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Mass Mail Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E35DFD.3070008@eric.nu>

Todd Walton wrote:
> Can someone suggest to me good reasons for a person not to put
> everyone's name on the To: line of an email?  Reasons that Joe Anybody
> would read and nod his head to?

Have them read this: http://bccplease.com/

Eric

From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr 13 10:53:31 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:53:31 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Mass Mail Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E35FFB.1030403@dchamp.net>

Todd Walton wrote:
> I just got an email from a programming user group I'm part of where
> the person put all 20-some people on the To: line.  I don't like this
> because everyone out there gets my email address.  I stand a much
> better chance of getting spam because of it.  But even if I don't get
> a single bit of spam more, it's still a matter of courtesy.
>
> Can someone suggest to me good reasons for a person not to put
> everyone's name on the To: line of an email?  Reasons that Joe Anybody
> would read and nod his head to?
>
> -todd, unrepentant digital mr manners
>   

Besides the privacy issue... one thing I dislike about these is people 
tend to hang on to the manual distribution lists, and keep re-using 
them. Then you have issues where people can't "unsubscribe", or change 
their email addresses.

Tell them to set up a mailing list... either on their own like mailman, 
or google or yahoo groups or something.

-dc



From tim_linux at wilson-home.com  Mon Apr 13 11:28:33 2009
From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:28:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Mass Mail Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <49E35DFD.3070008@eric.nu>
References: <e1d8c6520904130841g415aa05ey2c9121dd084d78db@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E35DFD.3070008@eric.nu>
Message-ID: <5a9568c20904130928r79fa68baw3edfd832de9794c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Eric Junker <eric at eric.nu> wrote:

> Todd Walton wrote:
> > Can someone suggest to me good reasons for a person not to put
> > everyone's name on the To: line of an email?  Reasons that Joe Anybody
> > would read and nod his head to?
>
> Have them read this: http://bccplease.com/
>
> Eric
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>


A few years ago, I sent Channel 13 an e-mail complaining about them running
weather reports and not airing Enterprise.  I guess I wasn't the only one
who complained because the program manager sent us all an e-mail.  Of
course, he put my and a bunch of other people's addresses on the To: line.
 I received e-mail from the other recipients.  I guess they felt that since
I had something in common with them, I wanted to hear from them too.
When I do a mass mailing, I put my address in the To: list, and everyone in
the BCC: list.  That confuses some people, but when I explain it to them,
they understand.

Just because you can put multiple people on the To: line, doesn't mean you
should.  If I were to send out a letter to a bunch of people via snail mail,
I wouldn't put everyone's address on each of the envelopes.  I'd put one
address on each envelope.  I know, putting multiple addresses on a single
envelope isn't feasible, but you get my point.

And don't even get me started on people who forward jokes on and don't strip
out the extraneous crap left over from the person who sent it to them, and
the person that sent it to that person, ad nauseam x20.


-- 
Tim
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From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Tue Apr 14 10:12:10 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:12:10 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Meeting Tomorrow
Message-ID: <49E4617A0200002E000328B1@alliancetechnologies.net>

I wanted to remind everyone that we have a Linux meeting tomorrow night.

It was supposed to be a college night meeting, but I couldn't get any
college kids to come and talk, so I declare the meeting to be resume
night instead.  If you're looking for work (or plan to be looking for
work), this is a good time to bring your resume and get advice and how
to lay it out.  We can also discuss interviewing techniques and maybe a
bit of social engineering to work your way to the top of the candidate
list.

Hope to see you tomorrow.



-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701


From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Tue Apr 14 10:19:50 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:19:50 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
Message-ID: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>

As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
CIALUG movie night.

Details and such are here:
http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29/func,details/did,15/

Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
and pick another one.

(To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
movie.  :)

Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.



-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701


From cniesen at gmx.net  Tue Apr 14 10:24:25 2009
From: cniesen at gmx.net (Claus)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:24:25 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>	<200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E4AAA9.2030101@gmx.net>

Todd Walton wrote:
> I was an electronics technician in a nuclear power plant for about
> five years.  But that was many years ago, and I seem to have lost most
> of it.  I only remember learning about this phenomenon in class, and
> comparing it to the same effect in water flow.  Water flow is higher
> around the edges of a pipe than in the center.

Your statement sounded odd to me so I had to ask my personal squeeze who 
is an Engineer and works with fluid dynamics on a daily basis.  She 
actually has a access to a pretty cool flow lab.  Anyway here is what 
she had to say:

"No. In fact the opposite is true.  The velocity of the flow right next 
to the pipe wall is virtually zero.  The lower the flow (or the higher 
the viscosity), the farther in you have to go before the velocity of the 
flow is at it's maximum."

   Claus

From afan at afan.net  Tue Apr 14 10:30:00 2009
From: afan at afan.net (Afan Pasalic)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:30:00 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <49E4ABF8.4020004@afan.net>


Josh More wrote:
> As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
> CIALUG movie night.
>
> Details and such are here:
> http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29/func,details/did,15/
>
> Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
> the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
> good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
> any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
> vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
> and pick another one.
>
> (To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
> movie.  :)
>
> Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.
>
>
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   

Can we make a list of movies now?

If sombody has blue-ray player, I can pick up some movies from Urbandale 
Library ( don't know what they have right now, but...)




From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com  Tue Apr 14 10:35:31 2009
From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:35:31 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E15AC@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>

Is there a moratorium on "chick flicks"?  What if Weis whips out his well worn copy of 'Sisterhood of the travelling pants'?

-Nate

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Josh More
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:20 AM
> To: cialug at cialug.org
> Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
> 
> As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
> CIALUG movie night.
> 
> Details and such are here:
> http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29
> /func,details/did,15/
> 
> Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
> the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
> good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
> any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
> vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
> and pick another one.
> 
> (To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
> movie.  :)
> 
> Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.
> 
> 
> 
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 

From morej at alliancetechnologies.net  Tue Apr 14 10:37:41 2009
From: morej at alliancetechnologies.net (Josh More)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
Message-ID: <49E467750200002E000328E0@alliancetechnologies.net>

I Dave Weis whips that out, I'll be voting for it, 'cause it's an
awesome movie.

So, no moratorium, you'll just have to bring enough people to overwhelm
us in the vote.  After all, it's the American way.  :)



-Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
 morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
 515-245-7701

>>> "Nathan C. Smith" <nathan.smith at ipmvs.com> 04/14/09 10:35 AM >>>
Is there a moratorium on "chick flicks"?  What if Weis whips out his
well worn copy of 'Sisterhood of the travelling pants'?

-Nate

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Josh More
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:20 AM
> To: cialug at cialug.org
> Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
> 
> As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
> CIALUG movie night.
> 
> Details and such are here:
> http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29
> /func,details/did,15/
> 
> Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
> the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
> good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
> any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
> vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
> and pick another one.
> 
> (To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
> movie.  :)
> 
> Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.
> 
> 
> 
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 
_______________________________________________
Cialug mailing list
Cialug at cialug.org
http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From afan at afan.net  Tue Apr 14 10:44:56 2009
From: afan at afan.net (Afan Pasalic)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49E467750200002E000328E0@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <49E467750200002E000328E0@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <49E4AF78.7090208@afan.net>

Cars
Happy Feet!
Wild Hogs
Jeff Dunham
Bicentennial Man
...

:-)





Josh More wrote:
> I Dave Weis whips that out, I'll be voting for it, 'cause it's an
> awesome movie.
>
> So, no moratorium, you'll just have to bring enough people to overwhelm
> us in the vote.  After all, it's the American way.  :)
>
>
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>  515-245-7701
>
>   
>>>> "Nathan C. Smith" <nathan.smith at ipmvs.com> 04/14/09 10:35 AM >>>
>>>>         
> Is there a moratorium on "chick flicks"?  What if Weis whips out his
> well worn copy of 'Sisterhood of the travelling pants'?
>
> -Nate
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
>> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Josh More
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:20 AM
>> To: cialug at cialug.org
>> Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
>>
>> As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
>> CIALUG movie night.
>>
>> Details and such are here:
>> http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29
>> /func,details/did,15/
>>
>> Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
>> the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
>> good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
>> any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
>> vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
>> and pick another one.
>>
>> (To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
>> movie.  :)
>>
>> Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC 
>>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net 
>>  515-245-7701
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   

From dave at dchamp.net  Tue Apr 14 10:45:58 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:45:58 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E15AC@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E15AC@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
Message-ID: <49E4AFB6.90305@dchamp.net>

I'm sure DW could come up with several girl-oriented movies, being as he 
lives in a house full of girls.

You know, it was recently the 10th anniversary of The Matrix (released 
March 31, 1999). You could watch that, then 'Sisterhood of the 
Travelling Pants'... it's probably better than the 2 sequels put 
together. Or... didn't someone have a copy of 'High School the Musical' 
they torrented? :)

Afan... anyone with a PS3 will be able to play Blu-Ray. Unless you have 
a 1080p projector or TV, it doesn't do you a lot of good.

I won't be able to be there, will be out driving roundy-round, probably 
in the rain.

-dc

Nathan C. Smith wrote:
> Is there a moratorium on "chick flicks"?  What if Weis whips out his well worn copy of 'Sisterhood of the travelling pants'?
>
> -Nate
>   



From zach at kotlarek.com  Tue Apr 14 10:55:19 2009
From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:55:19 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49E4ABF8.4020004@afan.net>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<49E4ABF8.4020004@afan.net>
Message-ID: <098B49F7-8CEF-45CA-ABC6-FAF49CF718E6@kotlarek.com>


On Apr 14, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Afan Pasalic wrote:

> If sombody has blue-ray player, I can pick up some movies from  
> Urbandale
> Library ( don't know what they have right now, but...)


I'll put my collection up for use. They're all currently in-stock  
unless marked otherwise:
	http://movies.uberzach.com/

As far as bad movies go, many of those titles of those also include a  
RiffTrax option:
	http://www.rifftrax.com/
	http://movies.uberzach.com/index.php?SEARCH=rifftrax&DETAIL=1

	Zach

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From djweis at internetsolver.com  Tue Apr 14 11:36:36 2009
From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:36:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E15AC@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
	<D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E15AC@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
Message-ID: <49E4BB94.9000104@internetsolver.com>

Nathan C. Smith wrote:
> Is there a moratorium on "chick flicks"?  What if Weis whips out his well worn copy of 'Sisterhood of the travelling pants'?

I'm sorry I haven't gotten that back to you. What did you think of the 
Hannah Montana movie, I remember you saying how excited you were to wait 
in line for the big opening :-)

dave

-- 
Dave Weis
djweis at internetsolver.com
http://www.internetsolver.com/

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 20:25:09 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:25:09 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] [omaha] Google Datacenters
In-Reply-To: <49E4AAA9.2030101@gmx.net>
References: <1882710950.344421239507124540.JavaMail.root@dial-mailstore1.drake.edu>
	<200904130931.47492.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<e1d8c6520904130823r51f3ef3ag2d5498ad3aecf07a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E4AAA9.2030101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904141825h30d8891ey39b1eae3134b3a20@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Claus <cniesen at gmx.net> wrote:
> "No. In fact the opposite is true. ?The velocity of the flow right next
> to the pipe wall is virtually zero. ?The lower the flow (or the higher
> the viscosity), the farther in you have to go before the velocity of the
> flow is at it's maximum."

Ah yes!  That's the ticket.

-todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 23:59:51 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:59:51 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to Fedora, and I'm having trouble understanding how networking
works in Fedora 10.  I've been working on getting KVM working, and
apparently one must turn off /etc/init.d/NetworkManager and turn on
/etc/init.d/network.  (There's two networking services!  That's
crazy!)

So, I've been following various guides on doing that, and I'm not
gettin' anywhere.  I can't get networking to work with
/etc/init.d/network.  Worse, I'm having trouble going back to
NetworkManager.  I leave a cookie crumb trail and back track
perfectly.  It worked before, but just now when I backtracked, it
didn't.  I turned off network and turned on NetworkManager, and yet it
wouldn't give me network.  I kept opening system-config-network
messing with various things, and there aren't a whole of things to
mess with in there.

Eventually I got to the state I'm in now, which is to say that
networking is working, but the little double computer icon in the
system tray in KDE has a red x on it, and it says "no network
connections".  Whatever, man.  I can load websites and I ain't dinkin'
with nothin' again tonight.

Can someone please explain to me how networking is supposed to work in
Fedora 10?  And, for bonus points, maybe how it's supposed to work for
KVM?

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 07:20:19 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:20:19 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] This is Linux
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>

The "I'm Linux" video contest has ended.

http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1261
http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1271

Playful, cool:
http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1154

Creepy, would make me cower and hide from Linux:
http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1262

And! The winner:
http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1106

I have to join with the prevailing dissenting opinion, which is to say
I don't like the videos.  I think a video could have been done that
would have done some kind of justice to Linux., but none of these
quite fit it.  What I was hoping for is something that emphasized the
plurality of Linux.  So, maybe an ad that focuses more on community
and livelihood.

This ad, from many years back, is better IMO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4

But it's still too *refined*.  I mean, Linux is not refined.  Refined
is for shiny black boxes.  Not only is Linux going to break once in a
while, but it *should*, with all the hands in the pot making it
better.  It's only truth in advertising to let people know that Linux
can be painful.

So, not that I necessarily could do better, and I didn't put my camera
where my mouth is, but how about... an ad shot in live action
amateurish video in which a bunch of geeks are in a room all standing
around crackin' jokes and tinkering with something.  And suddenly the
something stands up and starts haltingly walking.  Somebody with a
look of horror on his face cries, "It's alive!".  Black screen, white
letters: "It's Linux".  Cut back to the geeks still in the room,
crowded around the open door and looking out.  Somebody says "Oh shit.
 It's loose."

-todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Wed Apr 15 10:47:28 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:47:28 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] This is Linux
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904150847t5d7c6ac5u90b130abee1827ff@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> And! The winner:
> http://video.linuxfoundation.org/video/1106
>
> I have to join with the prevailing dissenting opinion, which is to say
> I don't like the videos. ?I think a video could have been done that
> would have done some kind of justice to Linux., but none of these
> quite fit it. ?What I was hoping for is something that emphasized the
> plurality of Linux. ?So, maybe an ad that focuses more on community
> and livelihood.

Wow, that winning entry is awesome. I honestly can't think of a better
way or a better message to use to sell Linux.

A few years back I gave a presentation on Inkscape at the LUG meeting.
It went over very well. I tried to do it again last fall to the DSM
Web Geeks and it didn't fly. The people in the audience kept asking
"Why?" They didn't understand why I'd want to use inkscape when
Illustrator can do everything it can do and more. They didn't care
about open formats or free licensing (for them the company paid for
Adobe's Creative Suite so it was free).

Selling freedom is a big deal imho. And whatever else changes about
Linux, freedom is one thing that will be a constant.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From cmlburnett at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 11:08:18 2009
From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:08:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] This is Linux
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904150847t5d7c6ac5u90b130abee1827ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904150847t5d7c6ac5u90b130abee1827ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3686ee50904150908xb23a9d0s886a7461e4eb4b1c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>
> Wow, that winning entry is awesome. I honestly can't think of a better
> way or a better message to use to sell Linux.

Except "freedom" in this context is meaningless to people who don't
have a tangible relationship to it.  It's a word.  You gave an example
of this:

> They didn't care
> about open formats or free licensing (for them the company paid for
> Adobe's Creative Suite so it was free).

The "freedom" doesn't mean anything to them.  I'm not disagreeing
about freedom but it's a catch: you have to want/need that freedom to
appreciate it.  I use Windows at work and its painfully hard for me to
use because I go home at night to linux.  I've drank the kool-aid so
the video makes sense to me and the people who picked it have also
drank the kool-aid.  To those that haven't, the video will be lost on
them.

I can with pretty strong confidence that that video won't get my
parents to try Linux.


Colin

From barry at vonahsen.com  Wed Apr 15 12:17:34 2009
From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:17:34 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] This is Linux
In-Reply-To: <e3686ee50904150908xb23a9d0s886a7461e4eb4b1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904150847t5d7c6ac5u90b130abee1827ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904150908xb23a9d0s886a7461e4eb4b1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E616AE.2020607@vonahsen.com>

Colin Burnett wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>> Wow, that winning entry is awesome. I honestly can't think of a better
>> way or a better message to use to sell Linux.
> 
> Except "freedom" in this context is meaningless to people who don't
> have a tangible relationship to it. 

I agree this understanding is a key - just before the last software 
freedom day, I'd gotten the packet o'swag at work, and after explaining 
the basics, a coworker asked "who cares if it's Free?" (essentially). 
then two days later, she asked why she couldn't play her itunes tracks 
on her blackberry, and I didn't have the presence of mind to tie the two 
together :(

-barry


From kristau at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 17:56:22 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:56:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone please explain to me how networking is supposed to work in
> Fedora 10?

NetworkManager vs /etc/init.d/network is (I think) dependent on
whether you choose a workstation/laptop install vs. a server install.
NetworkManager is the newer, end-user-friendly networking manager, so
it doesn't typically "activate" until a user has logged in to the box.
 Not ideal if you need to remotely power-cycle a box. . .

Try using your built-in package manager to remove NetworkManager and
make sure /etc/init.d/networking (not sure what package is associated
with that) is enabled.  Maybe even force a re-install/re-configure of
the /etc/init.d/networking packages to make sure they get "reset?"

> And, for bonus points, maybe how it's supposed to work for
> KVM?

Sorry, can't help w/ KVM, but perhaps re-installing the packages above
will "just make it work."

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From kristau at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 21:47:22 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:47:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] This is Linux
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904150520g5aa0a989w36a5a7977a04b9db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3effba680904151947i7911ffchdf902dcdc2bd997f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> This ad, from many years back, is better IMO:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4

Hmm, I find it interesting that you get a 404 page from IBM if you
enter the URL given at the end of that ad.  http://ibm.com/open

Especially interesting when they could have just re-directed it to
http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/

I guess they didn't consider You Tube in their marketing plan for that
ad campaign.  "The ads stop playing in major media markets on date X,
so we can remote the supporting Web site on date Y."

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 08:34:54 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:34:54 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 5:56 PM, kristau <kristau at gmail.com> wrote:
> Try using your built-in package manager to remove NetworkManager and
> make sure /etc/init.d/networking (not sure what package is associated
> with that) is enabled. ?Maybe even force a re-install/re-configure of
> the /etc/init.d/networking packages to make sure they get "reset?"

A 'yum search NetworkManager' does find a package.  I don't know what
would provide the plain old network script, though.

I have no network now.  I don't know what it is I'm doing, because I
keep track of the changes I make, and they all *seem* reversible.  But
there's no apparent pattern to what gives me network and what doesn't.
 I deactivate and then activate, and start and restart and there's
just no love for a brother.

I've learned that there are two different GUI network configurators,
one for each init script.  There's "system-config-network" for network
and "nm-something..." for NetworkManager.  I just need a good
comprehensive primer on how it works.  The RedHat style init scripts
are funky to begin with.  Funky or archaic, one of the two.

--
Todd

From jeff at ocjtech.us  Thu Apr 16 08:54:55 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:54:55 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 5:56 PM, kristau <kristau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try using your built-in package manager to remove NetworkManager and
>> make sure /etc/init.d/networking (not sure what package is associated
>> with that) is enabled. ?Maybe even force a re-install/re-configure of
>> the /etc/init.d/networking packages to make sure they get "reset?"
>
> A 'yum search NetworkManager' does find a package. ?I don't know what
> would provide the plain old network script, though.

The old-style network configuration is handled by the "initscripts"
package.  Don't remove that though - you'll have more problems that
just networking :).

> I have no network now. ?I don't know what it is I'm doing, because I
> keep track of the changes I make, and they all *seem* reversible. ?But
> there's no apparent pattern to what gives me network and what doesn't.
> ?I deactivate and then activate, and start and restart and there's
> just no love for a brother.
>
> I've learned that there are two different GUI network configurators,
> one for each init script. ?There's "system-config-network" for network
> and "nm-something..." for NetworkManager. ?I just need a good
> comprehensive primer on how it works. ?The RedHat style init scripts
> are funky to begin with. ?Funky or archaic, one of the two.

NetworkManager will ignore an interface if there is a
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-* file for the interface that
tells NetworkManager to ignore it (that's so you can switch back to
the old-style networking if you needed/wanted to).  Try removing those
files (but not ifcfg-lo) and restart the NetworkManager service.  Make
sure that you do "service network stop" first and "chkconfig network
off; chkconfig NetworkManager on"

Don't touch system-config-network (it's just a GUI for editing
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-* files) - stick with
NetworkManager. And with recent versions of NetworkManager (at least
on Fedora, I'm not sure how up-to-date other distros are)
NetworkManager _will_ bring up the network before you log in if the
interfaces are marked as "system" interfaces.  That should work "out
of the box" if you installed F10.

If that doesn't work, check /var/log/messages for logs that say
"NetworkManager" - it spits out quite a bit of information that would
be helpful in debugging.

Also check the output of "nm-tool".

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr 16 10:12:05 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>

Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> The old-style network configuration is handled by the "initscripts"
> package.  Don't remove that though - you'll have more problems that
> just networking :).
>
>   
[WARNING: slightly off-topic ranting and fist shaking ahead...]
I was reading the blog about the upcoming Mandriva 2009.1 (Spring) 
release... one change that's coming (not sure if it will be in this 
version or the 2010 release) is migrating off the old initscripts to the 
newer stuff RH is using, because initscripts is (are?) not going to be 
maintained. I'm dreading that change...

One of the main reasons I started using Mandriva (Mandrake at the time) 
was because they did a good job of un-RedHatting-up the broken stuff, in 
particular networking scripts in RH that had the same bug from like 2.x, 
I think they finally fixed it in 6.2, about 4 years later. That... and 
the lack of supported packages in RH, and switching to newer / better 
versions of stuff much quicker.

-dc



From jeff at ocjtech.us  Thu Apr 16 11:21:12 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:21:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>> The old-style network configuration is handled by the "initscripts"
>> package. ?Don't remove that though - you'll have more problems that
>> just networking :).
>>
>>
> [WARNING: slightly off-topic ranting and fist shaking ahead...]
> I was reading the blog about the upcoming Mandriva 2009.1 (Spring)
> release... one change that's coming (not sure if it will be in this
> version or the 2010 release) is migrating off the old initscripts to the
> newer stuff RH is using, because initscripts is (are?) not going to be
> maintained. I'm dreading that change...
>
> One of the main reasons I started using Mandriva (Mandrake at the time)
> was because they did a good job of un-RedHatting-up the broken stuff, in
> particular networking scripts in RH that had the same bug from like 2.x,
> I think they finally fixed it in 6.2, about 4 years later. That... and
> the lack of supported packages in RH, and switching to newer / better
> versions of stuff much quicker.

Boy, it sure seems like NetworkManager has gotten a bad rep that won't
go away.  Sure early versions had bugs (what doesn't?) and people were
expecting it to be the all-singing all-dancing Microsoft-ish network
configuration/management tool from day 1.  The 0.7 versions available
in Fedora 10+ (maybe 9 has it as an update too) will do 99.9% of what
I need on desktop and/or laptop.  In theory it's usable on servers but
I'd rather save the memory and RHEL/CentOS has an older version.  I'm
not an Ubuntu user so I don't know how well integrated it is there or
how current they are keeping.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr 16 11:35:54 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:35:54 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>	<49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
	<935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E75E6A.8020909@dchamp.net>

Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
>   
>> Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>>     
>>> The old-style network configuration is handled by the "initscripts"
>>> package.  Don't remove that though - you'll have more problems that
>>> just networking :).
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> [WARNING: slightly off-topic ranting and fist shaking ahead...]
>> I was reading the blog about the upcoming Mandriva 2009.1 (Spring)
>> release... one change that's coming (not sure if it will be in this
>> version or the 2010 release) is migrating off the old initscripts to the
>> newer stuff RH is using, because initscripts is (are?) not going to be
>> maintained. I'm dreading that change...
>>
>> One of the main reasons I started using Mandriva (Mandrake at the time)
>> was because they did a good job of un-RedHatting-up the broken stuff, in
>> particular networking scripts in RH that had the same bug from like 2.x,
>> I think they finally fixed it in 6.2, about 4 years later. That... and
>> the lack of supported packages in RH, and switching to newer / better
>> versions of stuff much quicker.
>>     
>
> Boy, it sure seems like NetworkManager has gotten a bad rep that won't
> go away.  Sure early versions had bugs (what doesn't?) and people were
> expecting it to be the all-singing all-dancing Microsoft-ish network
> configuration/management tool from day 1.  The 0.7 versions available
> in Fedora 10+ (maybe 9 has it as an update too) will do 99.9% of what
> I need on desktop and/or laptop.  In theory it's usable on servers but
> I'd rather save the memory and RHEL/CentOS has an older version.  I'm
> not an Ubuntu user so I don't know how well integrated it is there or
> how current they are keeping.
>
>   
Right... but the bug I'm talking about was what should have been a show 
stopper, and took like 4 years for them to fix, even when the other RH 
derived versions had fixed it, and I understand a patch was sent back to 
RH, but they refused and / or neglected to use it. Every time you 
changed a static IP address using the tool, you had to manually edit the 
/etc/sysconfing/network-script/ifcfg-eth(x) file and change the 
netmask... I think it always wrote it as 255.255.255.255 no matter what 
you specified in the tool.

Add to that using old versions of software, sticking with bug-laden 
stuff like wu-ftpd for years after everyone else gave up on it, and 
configuring mysql to run slowly (I've done my own benchmarks to compare 
doing the same query on the same hardware... RH was 3 times slower than 
Mandriva's version of mysql)...

Yeah, I know I'm probably holding a grudge against RH for way too 
long... kind of like why I didn't like Suse for a long time because an 
early version I ran used to spit out random German language error 
messages at you even if you selected English as your language... and my 
understanding of German is mostly what I learned watching Hogan's Heroes 
as a kid... :)

I'm not saying Mandriva is bug-free... I have a current issue where my 
wireless connection doesn't come up on reboot. I have a work-around of 
typing "iwconfig wlan0 essid my_essid", even though it already shows 
that essid... makes the connection come up. That's some goofy stuff.

The network manager in Ubuntu is pretty decent... I'm not an expert on 
it, but it seems to be OK.

-dc



From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 12:23:59 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:23:59 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
	<935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161023m732b1f16n5a08db29fee2f2f2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
> Boy, it sure seems like NetworkManager has gotten a bad rep that won't
> go away.

It seems to work pretty well.  But I've been told that to use KVM (the
virtualization tech) one must use the older network script.

--
Todd

From jeff at ocjtech.us  Thu Apr 16 12:28:44 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:28:44 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904161023m732b1f16n5a08db29fee2f2f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
	<935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161023m732b1f16n5a08db29fee2f2f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <935ead450904161028g74b92a37sade113bf624c1a4a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
>> Boy, it sure seems like NetworkManager has gotten a bad rep that won't
>> go away.
>
> It seems to work pretty well. ?But I've been told that to use KVM (the
> virtualization tech) one must use the older network script.

For the guest or the host?  A F10 guest I would have thought that
NetworkManager would have worked.  For a F10 host NetworkManager
probably doesn't support KVM networking yet.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 19:44:43 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:44:43 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904161028g74b92a37sade113bf624c1a4a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E74AC5.8060801@dchamp.net>
	<935ead450904160921k54964afajfcf1b9e8eb905e2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161023m732b1f16n5a08db29fee2f2f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904161028g74b92a37sade113bf624c1a4a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161744y5a91274aq81e7f47e9deb9191@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
> For the guest or the host? ?A F10 guest I would have thought that
> NetworkManager would have worked. ?For a F10 host NetworkManager
> probably doesn't support KVM networking yet.

... and that's my trouble here.

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:13:56 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:13:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>

I had the 32 bit Flash installed on my 64 bit Fedora 10 system last
night.  I booted my compter an hour ago and it's just... gone?  WTF?
How does software just disappear?  To be clear, yum says it's still
installed, but a Flash based website (using Firefox) says "additional
plugins are required" and "click here to download plugin".

This is very not cool.  Bad Fedora, bad.

--
Todd

From jeff at ocjtech.us  Thu Apr 16 20:33:49 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:33:49 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had the 32 bit Flash installed on my 64 bit Fedora 10 system last
> night. ?I booted my compter an hour ago and it's just... gone? ?WTF?
> How does software just disappear? ?To be clear, yum says it's still
> installed, but a Flash based website (using Firefox) says "additional
> plugins are required" and "click here to download plugin".

Do you have the nspluginwrapper packages installed?

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:36:13 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:36:13 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161836w3707dd8bqe38a40283f83aee2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
> Do you have the nspluginwrapper packages installed?

Yes, it was part of the initial setup to get Flash working.  I just
did 'yum reinstall flash-plugin' and Firefox's "about:plugins" still
says "No plugins installed".

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:38:38 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:38:38 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904161836w3707dd8bqe38a40283f83aee2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161836w3707dd8bqe38a40283f83aee2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161838q43b25ebby88c36c6fa107c766@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
>> Do you have the nspluginwrapper packages installed?
>
> Yes, it was part of the initial setup to get Flash working. ?I just
> did 'yum reinstall flash-plugin' and Firefox's "about:plugins" still
> says "No plugins installed".

I just restarted Firefox and flash is back.  Not sure why starting the
computer in the first place wouldn't cause Firefox to see flash, but
restarting it does.

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 21:30:22 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:30:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904161930o1a0691aeled25c97fd6d1b074@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
> NetworkManager will ignore an interface if there is a
> /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-* file for the interface that
> tells NetworkManager to ignore it (that's so you can switch back to
> the old-style networking if you needed/wanted to). ?Try removing those
> files (but not ifcfg-lo) and restart the NetworkManager service. ?Make
> sure that you do "service network stop" first and "chkconfig network
> off; chkconfig NetworkManager on"

I figured something out!  I edited
/etc/sysconfig/networking/profiles/default/ifcfg-eth0 to say
NM_CONTROLLED=yes.  It was set to no.  As soon as I :wq the little
NetworkManager icon picked up on it and gave me a bubble saying
connected.

*and* I do still have a connection.  We're gettin' somewhere, maybe.
I wonder if turning network on changed that setting, and then
switching back to NetworkManager failed to set it back.  I'm hesitant
to experiment.

--
Todd

From tim_linux at wilson-home.com  Thu Apr 16 21:46:36 2009
From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:46:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904161838q43b25ebby88c36c6fa107c766@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161836w3707dd8bqe38a40283f83aee2@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161838q43b25ebby88c36c6fa107c766@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a9568c20904161946he71f6acr9fe71075cb0eda7b@mail.gmail.com>

I think Chris Freeman has had an issue with Flash on Linux too.  Chris, care
to chime in?


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
> >> Do you have the nspluginwrapper packages installed?
> >
> > Yes, it was part of the initial setup to get Flash working.  I just
> > did 'yum reinstall flash-plugin' and Firefox's "about:plugins" still
> > says "No plugins installed".
>
> I just restarted Firefox and flash is back.  Not sure why starting the
> computer in the first place wouldn't cause Firefox to see flash, but
> restarting it does.
>
> --
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>



-- 
Tim
Required reading: http://bccplease.com/
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From cwfreeman at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 07:20:46 2009
From: cwfreeman at gmail.com (Chris Freeman)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:20:46 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Flash Gone?
In-Reply-To: <5a9568c20904161946he71f6acr9fe71075cb0eda7b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904161813n646d2d4drf4d297d506ffa1b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904161833m1daf389dl56c121a6a9f2b562@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161836w3707dd8bqe38a40283f83aee2@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161838q43b25ebby88c36c6fa107c766@mail.gmail.com>
	<5a9568c20904161946he71f6acr9fe71075cb0eda7b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3afd8deb0904170520m66387e50r38452320a28c6309@mail.gmail.com>

I've found that flash will stop working on my work machine, and that
restaring firefox solves the issue. It doesn't really sound related to
me, though.

On point - my work machine is 64bit Ubuntu. If the affected machine is
64bit Linux, I wouldn't be surprised it was having issues. I've had
several issues with Java apps (Eclipse and Intalio come to mind) on
64bit Linux. I don't know if the apps or the OS or the runtime is more
to blame.

Chris



On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Tim Wilson <tim_linux at wilson-home.com> wrote:
> I think Chris Freeman has had an issue with Flash on Linux too.? Chris, care
> to chime in?
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
>> >> Do you have the nspluginwrapper packages installed?
>> >
>> > Yes, it was part of the initial setup to get Flash working. ?I just
>> > did 'yum reinstall flash-plugin' and Firefox's "about:plugins" still
>> > says "No plugins installed".
>>
>> I just restarted Firefox and flash is back. ?Not sure why starting the
>> computer in the first place wouldn't cause Firefox to see flash, but
>> restarting it does.
>>
>> --
>> Todd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>
>
> --
> Tim
> Required reading: http://bccplease.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>

From barry at vonahsen.com  Fri Apr 17 07:56:17 2009
From: barry at vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:56:17 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904161930o1a0691aeled25c97fd6d1b074@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161930o1a0691aeled25c97fd6d1b074@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E87C71.4000100@vonahsen.com>

Todd Walton wrote:
> I'm hesitant to experiment.

c'mon, where's your sense of adventure? :)

obXKCD: http://xkcd.com/242/

-barry


From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 09:13:58 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:13:58 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <49E87C71.4000100@vonahsen.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3effba680904151556y4a083ceax4e19803d5690930@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904160634v2f9d1358l6355395eac50687b@mail.gmail.com>
	<935ead450904160654n15cfbcb5k25e4ed004391d1d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904161930o1a0691aeled25c97fd6d1b074@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E87C71.4000100@vonahsen.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904170713k76be4efcmb79f2a116a59774d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Barry Von Ahsen <barry at vonahsen.com> wrote:
> Todd Walton wrote:
>> I'm hesitant to experiment.
>
> c'mon, where's your sense of adventure? :)
>
> obXKCD: http://xkcd.com/242/

Yeah, you're right.  As a Linux user I should welcome the pain.  I've
installed Fedora 10 in a virtual machine, so I'm going to see what the
default config files are, and compare to the fubar machine this
weekend.

--
Todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 17 09:28:45 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:28:45 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] screen for X
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904170728s4cd2c9f5u6df131491782b5d@mail.gmail.com>

You know you've wanted it... http://partiwm.org/wiki/xpra It's like
VNC but for just one program. If you lose your connection you can
reconnect and the app is still running the way you left it.

I'm swamped and can't afford to do anything new until the end of next
week. I'd love to hear how it works and wished for something like this
for ages.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Fri Apr 17 09:41:03 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:41:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] screen for X
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904170728s4cd2c9f5u6df131491782b5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904170728s4cd2c9f5u6df131491782b5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904170941.03756.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

Interesting. Just yesterday i was experimenting with x11vnc, which 
shares the X desktop that is displayed on the physical console. x11vnc 
doesn't seem to slow down the local display at all, but the remote 
connection is noticeably slower than a VNC session that has its own 
virtual desktop separate from the physical display.

Something that can be like VNC but at the app level might be very 
useful--when i'm working remotely there are really only 1 or 2 
graphical apps that i need. I only use VNC to emulate a full desktop 
because if i take the simpler path of tunneling X applications over 
SSH, the programs crash if the SSH session is interrupted.

On 2009-04-17 at 09:28:45, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>You know you've wanted it... http://partiwm.org/wiki/xpra It's like
>VNC but for just one program. If you lose your connection you can
>reconnect and the app is still running the way you left it.
>
>I'm swamped and can't afford to do anything new until the end of next
>week. I'd love to hear how it works and wished for something like this
>for ages.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 17 14:18:38 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:18:38 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I have two people that I occassionally send sensitive information
to. Well, more than that but these two are special because they're not
computer geeks in any way.

In all cases it's just a document that we want kept private. One of
them uses Windows 64bit (I think Vista) and for some reason gpg
doesn't seem to work. However even if it did I don't like this
solution because before he got Vista we used gpg/winpt and he had to
create a new key every time I wanted to send him a file.

Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that if
they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From zach at kotlarek.com  Fri Apr 17 14:51:07 2009
From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BB10DA3-DB15-469F-B299-0EDCADA0CD57@kotlarek.com>


On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum wrote:

> Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
> computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
> Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that if
> they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.


I don't know if it's applicable to your situation -- if you just need  
encrypted transport vs. encrypted storage, or if you have any external  
resources to support the transfer -- but the easiest way I've found to  
do zero-setup encrypted transfers is HTTPS. If you've got a web server  
available that's suitable for storing these files you can get a  
certificate for $30/year, slap up a password-protected download folder  
and upload script, and just let their browser handle encryption for  
them.

	Zach

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From cmlburnett at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 15:04:06 2009
From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:04:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3686ee50904171304r5aa9942bncb6acc32dae20413@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>
> Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
> computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
> Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that if
> they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.

Aren't `zip -e foo.zip foo.txt` and winzip compatible?


Colin

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 17 15:16:12 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:16:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <e3686ee50904171304r5aa9942bncb6acc32dae20413@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171304r5aa9942bncb6acc32dae20413@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904171316u3f18f2a3q40cfc3c5b690739c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Colin Burnett <cmlburnett at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>>
>> Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
>> computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
>> Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that if
>> they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.
>
> Aren't `zip -e foo.zip foo.txt` and winzip compatible?
>

Good question, is it? And is it secure? Is this different than a
password protected zip file? With those you can see the list of files
but when you try to open a file you have to enter a password. I read
some time ago that the password protection is not trustworthy (don't
remember why though).

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From zach at kotlarek.com  Fri Apr 17 15:16:32 2009
From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:16:32 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <e3686ee50904171304r5aa9942bncb6acc32dae20413@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171304r5aa9942bncb6acc32dae20413@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2A20BD56-28E4-40CB-A729-47A27F1FD3DA@kotlarek.com>


On Apr 17, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Colin Burnett wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org>  
> wrote:
>>
>> Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
>> computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
>> Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that  
>> if
>> they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.
>
> Aren't `zip -e foo.zip foo.txt` and winzip compatible?


Maybe, but you have to be careful about exactly what sort of  
"encryption" your zip program uses -- the encryption in older versions  
is seriously flawed and newer versions are not universally supported.

7zip might be usable though, as it supports AES-256 without any  
possibility of fallback on to insecure algorithms (at least according  
to the spec -- I haven't actually tested any archive utilities).

	Zach

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From ewenix at raccoon.com  Fri Apr 17 15:14:50 2009
From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix at raccoon.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:14:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <4BB10DA3-DB15-469F-B299-0EDCADA0CD57@kotlarek.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BB10DA3-DB15-469F-B299-0EDCADA0CD57@kotlarek.com>
Message-ID: <28210.66.185.12.50.1239999290.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>

Given the assumption of a public IP and encrypted
transport I'd suggest SFTP using Filezilla for the
windows users since it wouldn't require any money.

I suppose it depends on how savvy the users are.
It may be worth the $30/yr for a browser only solution
if you would end up explaining how to use filezilla everytime.

You should be able to create a executable

I've also used GPG Relay with Outlook before with mixed results.
The less savvy users had trouble with it.

-Jeff

>
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>
>> Do you know a very easy way that I can encrypt a file on my Ubuntu
>> computer and send it to these two people who are Windows users?
>> Ideally it would be great if I could just use a pass phrase so that if
>> they forget it I can just tell it to them over the phone.
>
>
> I don't know if it's applicable to your situation -- if you just need
> encrypted transport vs. encrypted storage, or if you have any external
> resources to support the transfer -- but the easiest way I've found to
> do zero-setup encrypted transfers is HTTPS. If you've got a web server
> available that's suitable for storing these files you can get a
> certificate for $30/year, slap up a password-protected download folder
> and upload script, and just let their browser handle encryption for
> them.
>
> 	Zach
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From cmlburnett at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 15:29:46 2009
From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:29:46 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> Hi, I have two people that I occassionally send sensitive information
> to. Well, more than that but these two are special because they're not
> computer geeks in any way.

There seems to be some confusion: do you want encrypted files or
encrypted transfer?  With "sensitive information" I presumed you want
encrypted files so you don't have it laying around unprotected...and
you were trying gpg.  I guess you should still use some kind of
encrypted transfer just to be sure.


Colin

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 17 15:35:50 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:35:50 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Colin Burnett <cmlburnett at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>> Hi, I have two people that I occassionally send sensitive information
>> to. Well, more than that but these two are special because they're not
>> computer geeks in any way.
>
> There seems to be some confusion: do you want encrypted files or
> encrypted transfer? ?With "sensitive information" I presumed you want
> encrypted files so you don't have it laying around unprotected...and
> you were trying gpg. ?I guess you should still use some kind of
> encrypted transfer just to be sure.
>

Basically I need to send a document that only the intended recipient
can view. In some cases there is financial information in there and if
someone sees it I don't want it to be my fault. In some cases the
recipient could be in danger if someone else sees the document.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From ewenix at raccoon.com  Fri Apr 17 15:37:31 2009
From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix at raccoon.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:37:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <28210.66.185.12.50.1239999290.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BB10DA3-DB15-469F-B299-0EDCADA0CD57@kotlarek.com>
	<28210.66.185.12.50.1239999290.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
Message-ID: <28956.66.185.12.50.1240000651.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>

Glad it's friday.
I hate it when I get interrupted and hit send on an
email before I'm actually done with it.



> Given the assumption of a public IP and encrypted
> transport I'd suggest SFTP using Filezilla for the
> windows users since it wouldn't require any money.
>
> I suppose it depends on how savvy the users are.
> It may be worth the $30/yr for a browser only solution
> if you would end up explaining how to use filezilla everytime.
>
> You should be able to create a executable
>
> I've also used GPG Relay with Outlook before with mixed results.
> The less savvy users had trouble with it.
>
> -Jeff
>
>

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From ewenix at raccoon.com  Fri Apr 17 16:32:10 2009
From: ewenix at raccoon.com (ewenix at raccoon.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:32:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>

> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Colin Burnett <cmlburnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>>> Hi, I have two people that I occassionally send sensitive information
>>> to. Well, more than that but these two are special because they're not
>>> computer geeks in any way.
>>

You *can* use gpg to create an encrypted file that only requires a passphrase
using the --symmetric option, but I'm not sure how well non-tech people
handle the decryption. You could write up some good instructions with screenshots.

-Jeff


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From terry at HaimannOnline.com  Sat Apr 18 08:56:20 2009
From: terry at HaimannOnline.com (Terry A. Haimann)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 08:56:20 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
Message-ID: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>

I am wanting to upgrade my desktop at home and am considering an 
inexpensive quad processor.  Is there any hardware devices I should try 
to avoid on these machines.  When I install should I stay 32 bit or 
install the 64 bit version.  I am most comfortable with Fedora, is there 
any other distributions that I should be considering.

From newz at bearfruit.org  Sat Apr 18 11:49:23 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:49:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904180949y3035fe95hcc920970c770c75a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Terry A. Haimann
<terry at haimannonline.com> wrote:
> I am wanting to upgrade my desktop at home and am considering an
> inexpensive quad processor. ?Is there any hardware devices I should try
> to avoid on these machines. ?When I install should I stay 32 bit or
> install the 64 bit version. ?I am most comfortable with Fedora, is there
> any other distributions that I should be considering.

I'm getting a new computer in the summer and I'm seriously considering
using 64b. I don't mind fiddling a bit though and I also have a nice
help desk I can call with problems. :-) I think it's the way of the
future. I just don't know if it's the near future or the distant
future.

Regarding architecture, make sure your final solution has hardware
virtualization. You may not need it but in case you do you'll be glad
to have it. I know the AMD quad core's have it and I think the Intel
ones too, but I'm not sure. I know in Intel's dual core products there
is the "Pentium dual core" which don't have it and there is the Core
Duo / Core 2 Duo which do.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From kristau at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 12:23:00 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:23:00 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
Message-ID: <3effba680904181023n18ac6bdajff75855a624c4e46@mail.gmail.com>

How about TrueCrypt?  You could create a very small TrueCrypt volume,
mount that volume and copy your file into it.  Then unmount the
volume, send that to your end-user and give them the encryption key
via a different channel.  TrueCrypt is an easy install on Windows
systems, and I believe it works OK on Vista 64-bit (but I've not
tested that).

That might be a bit more user-friendly than gpg.

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From zach at kotlarek.com  Sat Apr 18 13:08:11 2009
From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:08:11 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <3effba680904181023n18ac6bdajff75855a624c4e46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
	<3effba680904181023n18ac6bdajff75855a624c4e46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2330FC99-5ECE-423F-87D4-FE1BEE2E1F42@kotlarek.com>


On Apr 18, 2009, at 12:23 PM, kristau wrote:

> How about TrueCrypt?  You could create a very small TrueCrypt volume,
> mount that volume and copy your file into it.  Then unmount the
> volume, send that to your end-user and give them the encryption key
> via a different channel.  TrueCrypt is an easy install on Windows
> systems, and I believe it works OK on Vista 64-bit (but I've not
> tested that).


If you want to keep the files encrypted at the destination I think  
disk images are the only way to go -- it's much too complicated for a  
typical user to decrypt a file for use into RAM only, or to properly  
clean up the unencrypted copy from their disk.

This is one thing I think Apple's disk images really get right -- read/ 
write sparse images with optional encryption. That and the ability to  
represent entire disks (as opposed to single volumes) in a disk image.  
But Apple doesn't think we should have the specs for their disk image  
format, so it's only useful in OS X. TrueCrypt has support for sparse  
images but AFAIK it only works with NTFS, so it's Windows-only and  
requires standard pre-allocation for cross-platform use.

	Zach

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From tdwalton at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 15:21:40 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:21:40 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Terry A. Haimann
<terry at haimannonline.com> wrote:
> I am wanting to upgrade my desktop at home and am considering an
> inexpensive quad processor. ?Is there any hardware devices I should try
> to avoid on these machines.

I'm not sure what you mean here.  What kind of hardware devices are
you thinking of?

> When I install should I stay 32 bit or install the 64 bit version.

64 bit.  I've been running 64 bit for a couple of weeks now.  I've run
into one small problem that I believe may be relevant.  When I start
my computer, Firefox thinks it has no plugins.  I restart Firefox and
voila, there's Flash.  But Adobe has a working 64 bit Flash player
out, and it will only improve with time.

> I am most comfortable with Fedora, is there
> any other distributions that I should be considering.

Ubuntu!  I'm using Fedora, and it's really damned slick.  But Ubuntu
has a lot going for it.

--
Todd

From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 15:35:18 2009
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:35:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>

I have been using 64b Fedora 8 for quite some time, and have never had
trouble -- I only upgraded to 10 due to the EOL of 8, and it is with 10
I have had trouble.  I occasionally have to manually remove the 32bit
packages due to the 64 bit packages complaining that the 32bit packages
installed man pages.

That and the whole KDE4 being crap fiasco....

Todd Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Terry A. Haimann
> <terry at haimannonline.com> wrote:
>   
>> I am wanting to upgrade my desktop at home and am considering an
>> inexpensive quad processor.  Is there any hardware devices I should try
>> to avoid on these machines.
>>     
>
> I'm not sure what you mean here.  What kind of hardware devices are
> you thinking of?
>
>   
>> When I install should I stay 32 bit or install the 64 bit version.
>>     
>
> 64 bit.  I've been running 64 bit for a couple of weeks now.  I've run
> into one small problem that I believe may be relevant.  When I start
> my computer, Firefox thinks it has no plugins.  I restart Firefox and
> voila, there's Flash.  But Adobe has a working 64 bit Flash player
> out, and it will only improve with time.
>
>   
>> I am most comfortable with Fedora, is there
>> any other distributions that I should be considering.
>>     
>
> Ubuntu!  I'm using Fedora, and it's really damned slick.  But Ubuntu
> has a lot going for it.
>
> --
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


From doncady at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 18:31:50 2009
From: doncady at gmail.com (Don Cady)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:01:50 +0030
Subject: [Cialug] Movie Night This Saturday
In-Reply-To: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
References: <49E463460200002E000328C1@alliancetechnologies.net>
Message-ID: <bfffc7a70904181631y3badf9c4o4953dd169b0cca06@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/09, Josh More <morej at alliancetechnologies.net> wrote:
> As another reminder, this coming Saturday we have the first annual
> CIALUG movie night.
>
> Details and such are here:
> http://www.cialug.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,29/func,details/did,15/
>
> Basically, show up around 3:00PM at 300 Locust and follow the signs to
> the "party room".  Bring a few movies that are either good to watch or
> good to make fun of.  We'll vote at 3:30 and start the movie.  If, at
> any point, someone wishes to watch something else, they may try for a
> vote.  If 75% of those watching think that the movie sucks, we re-vote
> and pick another one.
>
> (To prevent a DOS, any individual may only call for a vote once per
> movie.  :)
>
> Feel free to bring snacks and drinks as well.
>
>
>
> -Josh More, RHCE, CISSP, NCLP, GIAC
>  morej at alliancetechnologies.net
>  515-245-7701
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
..Ahhh... It's 300 Walnut. If you've tried coming down, we're at 300
Walnut, third floor. Dial 300 at the residential entrance if you can't
get in.

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 18:53:14 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:53:14 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> That and the whole KDE4 being crap fiasco....

What do you not like about KDE 4?  I'm having trouble finding
something to not like.

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 18:58:07 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:58:07 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Fedora 10 Networking
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1d8c6520904142159w6dfdc7c3o4e5a1a5089a9fd7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904181658r61c72b72q3ec80713f66fc572@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone please explain to me how networking is supposed to work in
> Fedora 10? ?And, for bonus points, maybe how it's supposed to work for
> KVM?

Well, I think I've figured it out.  I followed the instructions here:

http://www.howtoforge.com/virtualization-with-kvm-on-a-fedora-10-server

and left NetworkManager running.  I now have networking working in KVM!

--
Todd, pleased as punch

From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 21:19:43 2009
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:19:43 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>

Granted, some of these might not be KDE4 related, but due to a bug I
list, I cannot test in gnome.

Stability, mainly. Things crash. Alot. Which combined with some of the
following make it exceedingly annoying.

Other than that, missing features.

I use it with 2 monitors -- One works at boot, the other needs to be
reenabled every time I *log out*. Which involves adding a second panel
-- again, since it forgot I had 2.

And adding all the widgets to it.

Which don't space themselves right -- since they are only allowed to
autospace. Adding a clock and a task manger results in the clock
claiming 50% of the space, and the task manager getting 50%, and trying
to cram all the applications into that space. Evidently they have a 3rd
party app that can be used to manually consume space, so I can give it
x%, and the clock and task manager 1/2 of what is left. That would let
me move the clock, but make the lack of task manager space worse. I have
to reset my wallpaper everytime, as well.

The system tray doesn't work -- I am guessing due to the fact that I had
it on the second panel. At first, my icons only appeared in one small
square on my desktop, since the default setting is some goofy container
thing -- but I fixed that. Now the icons appear twice on my desktop --
once on each monitor.If I tell KDE to put the tasks on the left screen
on the left handed task manager, and those on the right, on the right,
it does the opposite. Tasks on the left go on the right, those ont he
right, go on the left. The alternative setting? yeah, that is to have
all tasks on *both* task managers. This is related to the fact that you
cannot make a single panel span 2 monitors, and need to set up a second
panel on the second monitor.

You cannot have 2 panels on the same edge of the screen -- they will sit
on top of each other. Which means the setup I like and have used on
every OS since win98 no longer works. I cannot have one panel with quick
launch icons and one of open tasks.

Sound randomly breaks. Sometimes mplayer works with sound, but not xine,
or vice versa.

I cannot test in gnome, since every time I log out, or reboot, it
automatically logs me right back in again.

In KDE (but not on a tty) the left and up arrows do not repeat. The
other keys all do.

The clock only supports 24 hour time. I am being picky here, but I am
not in the military and seeing that it is 23:30 is not my preferred
method of viewing the clock.

These are all things I opened bug reports for. Most of them were closed,
or I was told to go upstream, upstream told me to go downstream, and
then the bugs got closed -- or I was told to fix them myself. I wish I
could, as I would in a heart beat.

I am sure most of these have work arounds, but I gave up finding them
after finding so many work arounds that just create more issues.

I have been contemplating a reinstall and/or a move to a different
distro, but I spend so much time with redhat/centos machines that I can
do things from memory -- and I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things. So my
first reflex of logging in and updating immediately after installing was
breaking everything, and it took me a long time to figure it out)

I'm sure one of these days KDE4 will be ready for a non-alpha release,
but until that point, the fact that I was left the choice of an
unsupported, unmaintained OS, switching DE, or using KDE, combined with
the negative attitudes, and unwillingness to assist left a foul taste in
my mouth.

Right now, I just live with it, and I have found that I use my one
Windows box more than ever (puke). Now I am glad that I have left it
sitting around and hooked up with Synergy. I pretty much just use Fedora
10 to watch videos and listen to music any more, it is way too much
effort to have to re set things up the way I like and find usable all
the time, and things with no work around (like tasks appearing on the
wrong screen or the panel on the second screen crashing once or twice a
day)  that I just use the features that work, anymore.

Running yum update often gives me some hope for the future, though



Todd Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> That and the whole KDE4 being crap fiasco....
>>     
>
> What do you not like about KDE 4?  I'm having trouble finding
> something to not like.
>
> --
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


From kristau at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 23:26:57 2009
From: kristau at gmail.com (kristau)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:26:57 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <2330FC99-5ECE-423F-87D4-FE1BEE2E1F42@kotlarek.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
	<3effba680904181023n18ac6bdajff75855a624c4e46@mail.gmail.com>
	<2330FC99-5ECE-423F-87D4-FE1BEE2E1F42@kotlarek.com>
Message-ID: <3effba680904182126l67a35312jecaad33933d25ca9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Zachary Kotlarek <zach at kotlarek.com> wrote:
>TrueCrypt has support for sparse images but AFAIK it
> only works with NTFS, so it's Windows-only and requires standard
> pre-allocation for cross-platform use.
>
> ? ? ? ?Zach

You can format a TrueCrypt image with just about any filesystem, but
it requires a bit of advanced knowledge if you are trying to set up a
filesystem which is not native to the machine you are using to create
the image.

On my Ubuntu laptop, the GUI interface lists FAT, Ext2 and Ext3.
Using command line options and mkfs, however, I can create an image in
just about any format.

On my Windows Vista VM (32-bit), the GUI interface only lists FAT and
NTFS.  I don't know of any way to format other filesystems under
Windows.  It may be possible if you can get a version of FUSE for
Windows installed, though.  I've never tried to do that.

On my Mac, however, the GUI interface only gives me FAT as an option
when creating a new image.  Not sure why the native filesystems are
NOT listed on the Mac, but I have successfully created Mac-native and
NTFS volumes using some TrueCrypt command-line options, Disk Utility
and MacFUSE.

TrueCrypt is a good fit for the original problem Matthew presented,
given that the recipients of the files (who may not need to create an
image) are on a Windows platform.  Even if a two-way transfer is
required, these are read/write images.  The technically savvy party
can create an appropriately sized and formatted image, then both
parties can modify and exchange the image over and over again.  Think
of it as passing a virtual floppy disk back and forth.

-- 
Tired programmer
Coding late into the night
The core dump follows

From zach at kotlarek.com  Sun Apr 19 00:54:33 2009
From: zach at kotlarek.com (Zachary Kotlarek)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:54:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] encrypting a file
In-Reply-To: <3effba680904182126l67a35312jecaad33933d25ca9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f3c0b4080904171218w18d6eecdtd2c09527a30b4090@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3686ee50904171329y1ceda9a4t21fb6b7f748604ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904171335r580a2773y585fe74647b1fcb8@mail.gmail.com>
	<30509.66.185.12.50.1240003930.squirrel@mail.raccoon.com>
	<3effba680904181023n18ac6bdajff75855a624c4e46@mail.gmail.com>
	<2330FC99-5ECE-423F-87D4-FE1BEE2E1F42@kotlarek.com>
	<3effba680904182126l67a35312jecaad33933d25ca9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C765B64-0778-4A81-BF21-3A5D806048EF@kotlarek.com>


On Apr 18, 2009, at 11:26 PM, kristau wrote:

> You can format a TrueCrypt image with just about any filesystem, but
> it requires a bit of advanced knowledge if you are trying to set up a
> filesystem which is not native to the machine you are using to create
> the image.


I just meant that only Windows version supports sparse images -- on  
other platforms TrueCrypt images must be pre-allocated to the entire  
volume size (unless something has changed since last time I checked).  
If you're only ever exchanging small files that's not a big deal, but  
it's harder to use in general than an image with a 100 GB volume that  
grows/shrinks dynamically on disk as you add/remove data.

	Zach

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From tdwalton at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:41:48 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:41:48 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904190941l7826e799v9b226e724cd422d7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> Granted, some of these might not be KDE4 related, but due to a bug I
> list, I cannot test in gnome.

Wow.  You do have a lot of problems.  The only problem I have, related
to your two monitors thing, is that it doesn't remember my resolution
when I log out.  As soon as I open the Display settings window, it
clicks to the right resolution.  Seems like a pretty stupid bug to
leave around.

But I hardly ever log out so it's not so bad.  And I don't have two
monitors and I don't care about the silly widget things.  So I can't
say I feel your pain, but I sympathize.

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:49:35 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:49:35 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] My Linux Spellbook
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904190949j21518dyec845c4054396131@mail.gmail.com>

I feel powerful!  I just ran:

qemu -hda /var/lib/libvirt/images/windows-vr.img -cdrom
/home/todd/gparted-live-0.4.3-2.iso -boot d

and like a second later I have a running gparted live system, and a
Windows virtual image is the hard drive.  A snap of the fingers!

--
Todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Sun Apr 19 13:55:43 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:55:43 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.

huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
would be in serious trouble.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From kevin at linuxsmith.com  Sun Apr 19 14:01:29 2009
From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:01:29 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EB7509.8000704@linuxsmith.com>

Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
>> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
>> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
>> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.
> 
> huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
> would be in serious trouble.
> 

I use Ubuntu and use apt-get via CLI exclusively. I've never broken a thing.

From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 14:56:03 2009
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:56:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EB81D3.3030808@gmail.com>

This was a while back, a few years at least. What ever was happening,
the apt-get update was breaking KDM, so when I rebooted to get into the
new kernel things were locking up -- regardless of what kernel I was
selecting. After a long struggle trying to resolve things, I went to the
freenode channel and got chewed out for doing it 'manually' and was told
to use the GUI. I let the GUI run the first time and things worked.

Never bothered to look into it that much, though. After spending a few
weeks reinstalling, I frankly was just happy it was working.


Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
>> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
>> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
>> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.
>>     
>
> huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
> would be in serious trouble.
>
>   


From gray at cs.uni.edu  Sun Apr 19 18:47:18 2009
From: gray at cs.uni.edu (Paul Gray)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:47:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EB7509.8000704@linuxsmith.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EB7509.8000704@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <49EBB806.9010608@cs.uni.edu>

Kevin C. Smith wrote:
> Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
>>> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
>>> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
>>> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.
>> huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
>> would be in serious trouble.
>>
> 
> I use Ubuntu and use apt-get via CLI exclusively. I've never broken a thing.

Two things that work(*) in CLI under Ubuntu desktop, but not server:

dpkg-reconfigure libpam-ldap  (doesn't work)
dpkg-reconfigure libnss-ldap  (ditto)


(*) My definition of "work" is two-fold here: "work" as in "the Debian way" and
"work" as in functionally does what it's supposed to do.

-- 
Paul Gray                                         -o)
314 ITT, Dept. of Computer Science                /\\
University of Northern Iowa                      _\_V
Message void if penguin violated ...  Don't mess with the penguin
No one says, "Hey, I can't read that ASCII attachment ya sent me."

From kevin at linuxsmith.com  Sun Apr 19 20:17:20 2009
From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:17:20 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EBB806.9010608@cs.uni.edu>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EB7509.8000704@linuxsmith.com>
	<49EBB806.9010608@cs.uni.edu>
Message-ID: <49EBCD20.9020006@linuxsmith.com>

Paul Gray wrote:
> Kevin C. Smith wrote:
>> Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
>>>> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
>>>> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
>>>> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.
>>> huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
>>> would be in serious trouble.
>>>
>> I use Ubuntu and use apt-get via CLI exclusively. I've never broken a thing.
> 
> Two things that work(*) in CLI under Ubuntu desktop, but not server:
> 
> dpkg-reconfigure libpam-ldap  (doesn't work)
> dpkg-reconfigure libnss-ldap  (ditto)
> 
> 
> (*) My definition of "work" is two-fold here: "work" as in "the Debian way" and
> "work" as in functionally does what it's supposed to do.
> 

That seems extremely odd. It should be the same package never mind
server or desktop edition. dpkg-reconfigure should have worked the same
on both via CLI. Of course, doesn't work here is defined but I still
have not idea what we're talking about.

From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Sun Apr 19 23:15:04 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:15:04 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EBCD20.9020006@linuxsmith.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904191155p53e6485al16daa05af6fc855b@mail.gmail.com>	<49EB7509.8000704@linuxsmith.com>	<49EBB806.9010608@cs.uni.edu>
	<49EBCD20.9020006@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <49EBF6C8.9020403@foxmediasystems.com>

Kevin C. Smith wrote:
> Paul Gray wrote:
>   
>> Kevin C. Smith wrote:
>>     
>>> Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
>>>>> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
>>>>> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
>>>>> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things.
>>>>>           
>>>> huh? since when? If this were true then people using ubuntu server
>>>> would be in serious trouble.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> I use Ubuntu and use apt-get via CLI exclusively. I've never broken a thing.
>>>       
>> Two things that work(*) in CLI under Ubuntu desktop, but not server:
>>
>> dpkg-reconfigure libpam-ldap  (doesn't work)
>> dpkg-reconfigure libnss-ldap  (ditto)
>>
>>
>> (*) My definition of "work" is two-fold here: "work" as in "the Debian way" and
>> "work" as in functionally does what it's supposed to do.
>>
>>     
>
> That seems extremely odd. It should be the same package never mind
> server or desktop edition. dpkg-reconfigure should have worked the same
> on both via CLI. Of course, doesn't work here is defined but I still
> have not idea what we're talking about.
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   
You may want to have a look at the dpkg log for the packages if this is 
not working. There could be a debhelper bug in the package that appears 
when built against the server kernel. There are several differences in 
the compiled kernel between the desktop versions (-generic, -amd64, 
-i386 ect) and the -server kernel. These differences can sometimes 
produce many oddities with different packages. However, 
dpkg-reconfigure, apt-get install --reinstall will produce similar 
results. apt-get is perfectly acceptable for installing packages from 
repos. dpkg -i will install local packages similarly. The reason for 
these results is they both rely on the package's installation files. In 
most cases if there is some type of user input during the configuration, 
this is delt with with debhelper/debconf and pre/postinst scripts. So 
what does this alll mean for the question after I finish my ramblings? 
It doesn't make any bit of difference whether or not you use apt or 
dpkg, your results for the installation will always be the same because 
its based on the package.

-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 05:52:50 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:52:50 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Truth in Advertising
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904200352o7496e0b8n3aea33d5beaa8738@mail.gmail.com>

Windows Starter is a version of Windows 7 that will allow one to run
only three applications at a time.

"When you see Starter on netbooks, there are a lot of impressions that
it is limited," said Brad Brooks, corporate vice president for Windows
product marketing at Microsoft. "It's a pretty robust operating system
for customers at the price points we're giving it to them."

One wonders if Microsoft just creates value out of thin air.  Because
if value is based on the market, on available options and customer
wants, I can think of an operating system that *isn't* limited in that
way and is available at a much lower price point.  Ahem.

This reminds me of the Microsoft ad I saw many years back for 80%
discounts on Windows XP and Office XP for students.  It said, "Getting
software for any less would be illegal".

The most honest marketing I've seen Microsoft ever make was a joint
Microsoft/Novell flash ad that said "Novell Microsoft Present", and
then at the bottom, "Roll Over for More".

I'm not kidding!  I have images of both ads if you want to see.

--
Todd

From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr 20 09:50:14 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:50:14 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EC8BA6.7070902@dchamp.net>

Interesting... I've been running KDE 4.1 in Mandriva 2009 daily since 
last summer when I started with an alpha release. I only ran KDE 4.0 for 
a few hours... I could tell it wasn't ready for prime-time so I didn't 
use it.

Never had any stability problems with KDE 4. I have a PC at home that 
runs for months at a time with KDE up.

Don't run dual monitors daily, but I have done it. I used the nVidia 
tool to set it up (I think it's called nvidia-config or nvidia-tool or 
something like that), and it worked great.

The clock is just another widget. There are like 5 clock widgets (and 
probably more), if you don't like the default one, remove it and add a 
different one.

You could give Mandriva a try... it's similar to RH in a lot of ways, 
but they have their crap together better for the desktop experience. 
There's a Mandriva One live CD you can try if you don't want to install 
it. For installing & updating software, I like Mandriva's "urpmi" much 
better than yum / up2date.

-dc

Jeff Chapin wrote:
> Granted, some of these might not be KDE4 related, but due to a bug I
> list, I cannot test in gnome.
>
> Stability, mainly. Things crash. Alot. Which combined with some of the
> following make it exceedingly annoying.
>
> Other than that, missing features.
>
> I use it with 2 monitors -- One works at boot, the other needs to be
> reenabled every time I *log out*. Which involves adding a second panel
> -- again, since it forgot I had 2.
>
> And adding all the widgets to it.
>
> Which don't space themselves right -- since they are only allowed to
> autospace. Adding a clock and a task manger results in the clock
> claiming 50% of the space, and the task manager getting 50%, and trying
> to cram all the applications into that space. Evidently they have a 3rd
> party app that can be used to manually consume space, so I can give it
> x%, and the clock and task manager 1/2 of what is left. That would let
> me move the clock, but make the lack of task manager space worse. I have
> to reset my wallpaper everytime, as well.
>
> The system tray doesn't work -- I am guessing due to the fact that I had
> it on the second panel. At first, my icons only appeared in one small
> square on my desktop, since the default setting is some goofy container
> thing -- but I fixed that. Now the icons appear twice on my desktop --
> once on each monitor.If I tell KDE to put the tasks on the left screen
> on the left handed task manager, and those on the right, on the right,
> it does the opposite. Tasks on the left go on the right, those ont he
> right, go on the left. The alternative setting? yeah, that is to have
> all tasks on *both* task managers. This is related to the fact that you
> cannot make a single panel span 2 monitors, and need to set up a second
> panel on the second monitor.
>
> You cannot have 2 panels on the same edge of the screen -- they will sit
> on top of each other. Which means the setup I like and have used on
> every OS since win98 no longer works. I cannot have one panel with quick
> launch icons and one of open tasks.
>
> Sound randomly breaks. Sometimes mplayer works with sound, but not xine,
> or vice versa.
>
> I cannot test in gnome, since every time I log out, or reboot, it
> automatically logs me right back in again.
>
> In KDE (but not on a tty) the left and up arrows do not repeat. The
> other keys all do.
>
> The clock only supports 24 hour time. I am being picky here, but I am
> not in the military and seeing that it is 23:30 is not my preferred
> method of viewing the clock.
>
> These are all things I opened bug reports for. Most of them were closed,
> or I was told to go upstream, upstream told me to go downstream, and
> then the bugs got closed -- or I was told to fix them myself. I wish I
> could, as I would in a heart beat.
>
> I am sure most of these have work arounds, but I gave up finding them
> after finding so many work arounds that just create more issues.
>
> I have been contemplating a reinstall and/or a move to a different
> distro, but I spend so much time with redhat/centos machines that I can
> do things from memory -- and I have gotten my self in trouble trying to
> do things the redhat way on a Ubuntu machine before, and it took me a
> few weeks to find out what I was doing wrong. (Apparently you are not
> supposed to use apt-get from the CLI anymore -- it breaks things. So my
> first reflex of logging in and updating immediately after installing was
> breaking everything, and it took me a long time to figure it out)
>
> I'm sure one of these days KDE4 will be ready for a non-alpha release,
> but until that point, the fact that I was left the choice of an
> unsupported, unmaintained OS, switching DE, or using KDE, combined with
> the negative attitudes, and unwillingness to assist left a foul taste in
> my mouth.
>
> Right now, I just live with it, and I have found that I use my one
> Windows box more than ever (puke). Now I am glad that I have left it
> sitting around and hooked up with Synergy. I pretty much just use Fedora
> 10 to watch videos and listen to music any more, it is way too much
> effort to have to re set things up the way I like and find usable all
> the time, and things with no work around (like tasks appearing on the
> wrong screen or the panel on the second screen crashing once or twice a
> day)  that I just use the features that work, anymore.
>
> Running yum update often gives me some hope for the future, though
>
>
>
> Todd Walton wrote:
>   
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> That and the whole KDE4 being crap fiasco....
>>>     
>>>       
>> What do you not like about KDE 4?  I'm having trouble finding
>> something to not like.
>>
>> --
>> Todd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   



From nathanism at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 10:04:23 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW, I have had many of the same issues with KDE4 that Jeff Chapin had.
And then some.  I have been a longtime KDE fanboy, and it's been sad to see
it turn into this crashy, glitchy mockery of its former glory.  I tried
workarounds for many of the issues, but eventually I decided I have more
important problems to solve.

In my search for alternatives, I switched to XFCE (on my ubuntu intrepid
laptop at least) and hacked up a wrapper around wmctrl to regain precise
keyboard-based control of my windows' positions, sizes, workspaces, etc.
like I used to have in KDE3.  It's not too bad, and does seem to save me
some ram/cpu.  My other boxen still have KDE3 for the time being.

Interestingly, it seemed like KDE4's feature to let you apply qt4 themes to
gtk apps made my firefox horribly slow and suffer numerous drawing glitches,
at least under the themes I was trying.  Switching to XFCE made my firefox
noticeably faster and less glitchy.
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From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr 20 10:15:12 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:15:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
	<8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EC9180.2060203@dchamp.net>

I'm not trying to say that people didn't have problems with KDE4... just 
curious what version (4.0 or 4.1) and if maybe RedHat just had something 
poorly configured... which wouldn't be surprising from a company that 
publicly says that the Linux desktop is dead.

I think KDE4 got a bad rep when the 4.0 version was released with some 
distros (when the KDE developers said it wasn't ready for production 
use), now there's a perception issue (like the old BS that you couldn't 
run PHP with Apache 2.0 because it wasn't thread safe).

If KDE4 were crashy, I'd drop it like a hot rock. I can't stand having 
my desktop crash.

Mandriva 2009 and KDE4.1 are perfectly stable and usable for me. I've 
tried Kubuntu and it seems to be fine as well.

-dc

Nathan Stien wrote:
> FWIW, I have had many of the same issues with KDE4 that Jeff Chapin 
> had.  And then some.  I have been a longtime KDE fanboy, and it's been 
> sad to see it turn into this crashy, glitchy mockery of its former 
> glory.  I tried workarounds for many of the issues, but eventually I 
> decided I have more important problems to solve.
>
> In my search for alternatives, I switched to XFCE (on my ubuntu 
> intrepid laptop at least) and hacked up a wrapper around wmctrl to 
> regain precise keyboard-based control of my windows' positions, sizes, 
> workspaces, etc. like I used to have in KDE3.  It's not too bad, and 
> does seem to save me some ram/cpu.  My other boxen still have KDE3 for 
> the time being.
>
> Interestingly, it seemed like KDE4's feature to let you apply qt4 
> themes to gtk apps made my firefox horribly slow and suffer numerous 
> drawing glitches, at least under the themes I was trying.  Switching 
> to XFCE made my firefox noticeably faster and less glitchy.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   



From nathanism at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 10:26:23 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:26:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49EC9180.2060203@dchamp.net>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
	<8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49EC9180.2060203@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904200826x33bf5fdbj291c0cccc70e16a8@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:15 AM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:

> I'm not trying to say that people didn't have problems with KDE4... just
> curious what version (4.0 or 4.1) and if maybe RedHat just had something
> poorly configured... which wouldn't be surprising from a company that
> publicly says that the Linux desktop is dead.


My worst KDE4 experience was quite recently with KDE 4.1 on Kubuntu
Intrepid.  It was my personal worst because it only took me about 10 minutes
to decide that 4.0 was Not Ready For Prime Time and went back to 3.x.  With
4.1 I decided to make a go of it since a growing number of distros have
switched to it.  Clearly it can't possibly suck this bad for everyone if
distros are switching.
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From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr 20 10:27:09 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:27:09 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181321u796cb311u4ffcdfd7de5c4e0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA3986.9000707@gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904181653u13808052wa757a6c971d83bfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EA8A3F.6050801@gmail.com>
	<8b490d600904200804t3044a7d4n8faf7582b9cd684a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904200827m5042f553y965ae55d5602a524@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Nathan Stien <nathanism at gmail.com> wrote:
> And then some.? I have been a longtime KDE fanboy, and it's been sad to see
> it turn into this crashy, glitchy mockery of its former glory.

Well, the screenshots look good. :-)

I know numerous people who are using 4.1 now. I'm more in touch with
the ubuntu/kubuntu world than the fedora or mandriva worlds but it
seems that during the jaunty beta cycle I've seen several people
switch to kde from gnome. I'd even considered it myself, just to see
what the talk is about.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From jeff at ocjtech.us  Mon Apr 20 11:12:03 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:12:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
Message-ID: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html

Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
some group will fork the code...

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From jrnosee at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 11:18:12 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:18:12 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>

I would hope MySQL remains as a free open source app, but I could see MySQL
enterprise falling to Oracle now.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:

> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html
>
> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
> some group will fork the code...
>
> --
> Jeff Ollie
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
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From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com  Mon Apr 20 11:22:33 2009
From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:22:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1612@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>

I was always hoping for an Apple-Sun union.  This is disappointing.

-Nate 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Ollie
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:12 AM
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html
> 
> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
> some group will fork the code...
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Ollie
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 

From timchampion at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 11:24:18 2009
From: timchampion at gmail.com (Tim Champion)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:24:18 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7aa1cdb20904200924m24ce7852m1094ade3a7cc98e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:

> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html
>
> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
> some group will fork the code...
>
>
Somebody like Michael "Monty" Widenius who recently quit Sun.
http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Tim Champion
timchampion at gmail.com
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From eric at eric.nu  Mon Apr 20 11:36:39 2009
From: eric at eric.nu (Eric Junker)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:36:39 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>

jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
> I would hope MySQL remains as a free open source app, but I could see 
> MySQL enterprise falling to Oracle now.

MySQL is GPL so it will always be open source.

I think MySQL compliments Oracle and doesn't compete with Oracle so I 
don't see Oracle killing MySQL. Oracle bought Innobase in 2005 which is 
the creator of the InnoDB storage engine that MySQL can use.

Eric

From jeff at ocjtech.us  Mon Apr 20 11:41:42 2009
From: jeff at ocjtech.us (Jeffrey Ollie)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:41:42 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
Message-ID: <935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Eric Junker <eric at eric.nu> wrote:
> jrnosee at gmail.com wrote:
>> I would hope MySQL remains as a free open source app, but I could see
>> MySQL enterprise falling to Oracle now.
>
> MySQL is GPL so it will always be open source.
>
> I think MySQL compliments Oracle and doesn't compete with Oracle so I
> don't see Oracle killing MySQL. Oracle bought Innobase in 2005 which is
> the creator of the InnoDB storage engine that MySQL can use.

Well, Oracle can stop MySQL/Sun/Oracle employees from working on
MySQL.  I don't follow MySQL development but I'd bet a number of the
more active MySQL developers now work for Oracle.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

From jrnosee at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 12:05:03 2009
From: jrnosee at gmail.com (jrnosee at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:05:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Meeting Ideas
Message-ID: <a202c1b0904201005u5fb8b4dev92fafbdf1f9c0e22@mail.gmail.com>

A couple of meetings ago I believe it was asked if there were any topics
people would be interested in.  I know most of the group has been working in
Linux for some time, but it seems we've been getting new people in recently
and I'm a relative "n00b" myself.  I'm fairly comfortable moving about in
Ubuntu linux now as far as a desktop OS.  I've even stretched out a bit and
have gone beyond that to set up samba and have base apache and php
installs.  What I'd like to know is if we can cover some topics that may be
old hat to some, but very confusing to newer users.  I?m especially
interested in #2 below.  My wife has put an ultimatum out on shutting down
my $10/mo webhosting, so I?m trying to bring it in house, but I don?t know
how to replace the DNS services and some features offered by my current
host.

1.       Install and use of linux as a desktop os (replacing winblows)

a.       Verifying Hardware setup

                                                               i.      WiFi

                                                              ii.      Graphics
adapter

b.       Installing applications

                                                               i.      Office
replacement

                                                              ii.      iTunes
replacement

                                                            iii.      Outlook
replacement

1.       Inc. sync w/ mobile devices

                                                            iv.      Etc.

c.        Setting up preferences

d.       Remote access

e.        Gaming in linux (in brief)

f.        Etc

2.       Installing and configuring a Linux basic web server
(LAMP/XAMPP/etc)

a.       Linux Server install

b.       Apache install and basic configuration

c.        MySQL installation and tools (phpmyadmin?)

d.       PHP/Ruby/Rails/Perl/etc?

e.        Email POP3/IMAP/SMTP/other? Server

f.        DNS server

g.        Configuration of a-f.

                                                               i.      Perhaps
get recommendations for configuration tools and setup and use one of those?
i.e. Webmin.

h.       Log watching?

                                                               i.      Splunk
IT?

3.       Writing and compiling applications for Linux

a.       Scripting

b.       Console Applications

c.        X/GDM/KDE/other apps

d.       Web languages

e.        IDE?s

4.       Linux + old PC = ?

a.       NAS

b.       Router

c.        Streaming Media Server

d.       ???

5.       Linux as a HTPC/Media Center (didn?t want to put this under ?old
PC?)

a.       MythTV

b.       HDTV connections & graphics configuration

c.        LIRC

d.       LinuxMCE?

Would anyone else be interested in any of this?  I?d hate to waste the
group?s time if I?m the only one in need of some of this.  I was thinking #1
would be a good meeting after SFD.  We could try to set up the following
meeting in a larger space if possible and invite people who come to SFD to
come to the meeting for a more in-depth demonstration.
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From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr 20 12:59:30 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:59:30 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
	<935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff at ocjtech.us> wrote:
>> I think MySQL compliments Oracle and doesn't compete with Oracle so I
>> don't see Oracle killing MySQL. Oracle bought Innobase in 2005 which is
>> the creator of the InnoDB storage engine that MySQL can use.
>
> Well, Oracle can stop MySQL/Sun/Oracle employees from working on
> MySQL. ?I don't follow MySQL development but I'd bet a number of the
> more active MySQL developers now work for Oracle.
>

I'm not worried about MySQL. Drizzle and MariaDB will fill the gaps if
O kills off MySQL. However there really isn't a product to fill in the
gap for OpenOffice.org.

I suspect that Oracle is trying to become more like IBM and wants to
have a more visible open source presence so will keep it going.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From chris at ia.gov  Mon Apr 20 12:59:34 2009
From: chris at ia.gov (chris)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:59:34 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49ECB806.5010103@ia.gov>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html
> 
> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
> some group will fork the code...
> 


There already are some active forks, this one in particular is one of the ones that I have found more interesting:

http://drizzle.org/wiki/About_Drizzle

In the last few years Sun has put some solid folks from the OSS community on the payroll and directed their attention to
polishing up the SAMP stack. (Jeff Trawick and Nick Kew of Apache httpd fame to name two.)   I imagine Oracle will
continue on the path and do something like IBM has done with Tomcat.  They will embrace it and offer a clear/clean/easy
upgrade path to OracleDB should the user "outgrow" Mysql.  They can still sell lots of services around Mysql and
services are where the real money is made anyway.

crr



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iEYEARECAAYFAknsuAYACgkQPmaZdRmQd+YXRACfaAoVQmvBztqBVgTnjrCyvJUT
0t0Amwch/H6BwQ/cyDfy9u8i5AUfHRp6
=LfEd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr 20 13:03:17 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:03:17 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Meeting Ideas
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904201005u5fb8b4dev92fafbdf1f9c0e22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a202c1b0904201005u5fb8b4dev92fafbdf1f9c0e22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904201103h258c6c90kc6088dd3241c8a20@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:05 PM,  <jrnosee at gmail.com> wrote:
> c.??????? LIRC

I'd love to be able to use a remote for presenting. Tried a few times
without success.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr 20 13:06:33 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:06:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <49ECB806.5010103@ia.gov>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECB806.5010103@ia.gov>
Message-ID: <49ECB9A9.5070707@dchamp.net>

chris wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>   
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10223090-16.html
>>
>> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
>> some group will fork the code...
>>
>>     
>
>
> There already are some active forks, this one in particular is one of the ones that I have found more interesting:
>
> http://drizzle.org/wiki/About_Drizzle
>
> In the last few years Sun has put some solid folks from the OSS community on the payroll and directed their attention to
> polishing up the SAMP stack. (Jeff Trawick and Nick Kew of Apache httpd fame to name two.)   I imagine Oracle will
> continue on the path and do something like IBM has done with Tomcat.  They will embrace it and offer a clear/clean/easy
> upgrade path to OracleDB should the user "outgrow" Mysql.  They can still sell lots of services around Mysql and
> services are where the real money is made anyway.
>
> crr
>
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAknsuAYACgkQPmaZdRmQd+YXRACfaAoVQmvBztqBVgTnjrCyvJUT
> 0t0Amwch/H6BwQ/cyDfy9u8i5AUfHRp6
> =LfEd
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>   
Drizzle is going for a very "light" approach, and might not be suitable 
for many of the applications that are using MySQL today - but it will 
probably be great for the cases where you don't need transactions or 
stored procedures. MariaDB is more of a continuation / fork of MySQL, 
and will have the advanced features that MySQL has been building on, 
plus some other new features.

-dc



From djweis at internetsolver.com  Mon Apr 20 13:20:43 2009
From: djweis at internetsolver.com (Dave Weis)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:20:43 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49ECBCFB.8070301@internetsolver.com>

Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> Wonder if this is the death-knell for MySQL as we know it?  Perhaps
> some group will fork the code...

I hope so :-) Maybe Larry Ellison will let the person that erases the 
most copies of mysql take a ride in his fighter jet...

-- 
Dave Weis
Internet Solver
Your Technology Partner
515-224-9229
www.internetsolver.com

From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Mon Apr 20 13:30:22 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:30:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug]  OT furbeowolf cluster
In-Reply-To: <49ECBCFB.8070301@internetsolver.com>
Message-ID: <20090420183026.9C33BD949@www.cialug.org>

http://www.trygve.com/furbeowulf.html
I found this in the April 09 issue of elector. I've had the flu bad this
week so I can't tell if this real or if it's a joke...
-dh 



From newz at bearfruit.org  Mon Apr 20 14:11:54 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:11:54 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
	<935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904201211jfd1a8fbs8851a7514f793400@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> I suspect that Oracle is trying to become more like IBM and wants to
> have a more visible open source presence so will keep it going.
>

It seems this topic is quite interesting to some of my co-workers. One
just pointed out this from
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7435543727.html?kc=rss

  While Oracle may appreciate having control over Java, the company does not
see Sun's software as a major revenue generator, says the story. "Any software
projects will be discontinued and released back into the open source
community," writes Preimesberger. "Depending upon how Oracle handles it, MySQL
could be a minor player inside the company, or it could be set adrift."



-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 15:28:41 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:28:41 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Meeting Ideas
In-Reply-To: <a202c1b0904201005u5fb8b4dev92fafbdf1f9c0e22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a202c1b0904201005u5fb8b4dev92fafbdf1f9c0e22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904201328u7e6ee6d3yac3587d706386d7b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:05 PM,  <jrnosee at gmail.com> wrote:
> A couple of meetings ago I believe it was asked if there were any topics
> people would be interested in.? I know most of the group has been working in
> Linux for some time, but it seems we've been getting new people in recently
> and I'm a relative "n00b" myself.? I'm fairly comfortable moving about in
> Ubuntu linux now as far as a desktop OS.? I've even stretched out a bit and
> have gone beyond that to set up samba and have base apache and php
> installs.? What I'd like to know is if we can cover some topics that may be
> old hat to some, but very confusing to newer users.? I?m especially
> interested in #2 below.? My wife has put an ultimatum out on shutting down
> my $10/mo webhosting, so I?m trying to bring it in house, but I don?t know
> how to replace the DNS services and some features offered by my current
> host.

Good list.  This would make a pretty good structure for HOWTOs in the
cialug.org wiki.

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 15:50:47 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:50:47 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] OT furbeowolf cluster
In-Reply-To: <20090420183026.9C33BD949@www.cialug.org>
References: <49ECBCFB.8070301@internetsolver.com>
	<20090420183026.9C33BD949@www.cialug.org>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904201350sb62d47yd6eb4792141cf929@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Dan Hockey <icepuck2k at mchsi.com> wrote:
> http://www.trygve.com/furbeowulf.html
> I found this in the April 09 issue of elector. I've had the flu bad this
> week so I can't tell if this real or if it's a joke...

The "humor" label at the top didn't give it away?  =)

--
Todd

From tdwalton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 16:26:42 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:26:42 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904201211jfd1a8fbs8851a7514f793400@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
	<935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904201211jfd1a8fbs8851a7514f793400@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904201426i15c91eb2kd01660d3aa62cecb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> "Depending upon how Oracle handles it, MySQL could be a minor player inside
> the company, or it could be set adrift."

Seems kind of silly.  MySQL is a pretty strong brand name, and a good
path to moving up to Oracle's database if they're smart about it.

--
Todd

From dave at dchamp.net  Mon Apr 20 16:28:36 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:28:36 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] New desktop ?
In-Reply-To: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
References: <49E9DC04.5080809@HaimannOnline.com>
Message-ID: <49ECE904.8070509@dchamp.net>

Terry A. Haimann wrote:
> I am wanting to upgrade my desktop at home and am considering an 
> inexpensive quad processor.  Is there any hardware devices I should try 
> to avoid on these machines.  When I install should I stay 32 bit or 
> install the 64 bit version.  I am most comfortable with Fedora, is there 
> any other distributions that I should be considering.
>   

To answer Terry's original question... I was recently looking into 
building a new PC, I did some research and had determined that for my 
purposes (replacing my gaming PC) I was going to build an Intel 
Core2quad, hadn't decided on the motherboard.

For your distro, try a couple of the Live CD's and see what you like. As 
I mentioned before, if you like Fedora but want a bit more bling, try 
Mandriva. Ubuntu is OK, but you don't want to be like everyone else, do 
you? ;)

-dc



From cwfreeman at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 18:19:40 2009
From: cwfreeman at gmail.com (Chris Freeman)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:19:40 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904201426i15c91eb2kd01660d3aa62cecb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>
	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>
	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>
	<935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904201211jfd1a8fbs8851a7514f793400@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904201426i15c91eb2kd01660d3aa62cecb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3afd8deb0904201619u379efb71g3bc1dd8aad3681b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>> "Depending upon how Oracle handles it, MySQL could be a minor player inside
>> the company, or it could be set adrift."
>
> Seems kind of silly. ?MySQL is a pretty strong brand name, and a good
> path to moving up to Oracle's database if they're smart about it.
>
> --
> Todd

But, controlling MySQL doesn't really do them that much good. Selling
services (which is where Oracle and IBM are, I think) makes lots of
sense. RedHat can sell Linux without employing Linus. MySQL is a
commodity, and Oracle doesn't need to spend resources on it for MySQL
in order to sell services around it, when necessary.

Chris

From jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us  Tue Apr 21 11:55:28 2009
From: jbailey at co.marshall.ia.us (Jonathan C. Bailey)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:55:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Java Printing
Message-ID: <4050998.412991240332928833.JavaMail.root@zimbra>

I'm running some Java apps under Ubuntu Hardy and for some reason, Java doesn't grab printers available to the current user (like lpstat -a), but shows all the system printers to the user. Other applications (Firefox, Acrobat, etc) work fine. Has anyone else had this problem?


-Jon

From dave at dchamp.net  Tue Apr 21 17:01:33 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:01:33 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Oracle buys Sun...
In-Reply-To: <3afd8deb0904201619u379efb71g3bc1dd8aad3681b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <935ead450904200912h62018c3djdf50e539b0dd5f96@mail.gmail.com>	<a202c1b0904200918q65338e6epe1031ff3a5eeb283@mail.gmail.com>	<49ECA497.6090207@eric.nu>	<935ead450904200941i631d14b7rda9c431393fa4d07@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904201059v60765ecaj58580f2eaeb7c5f0@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904201211jfd1a8fbs8851a7514f793400@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904201426i15c91eb2kd01660d3aa62cecb@mail.gmail.com>
	<3afd8deb0904201619u379efb71g3bc1dd8aad3681b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EE423D.20308@dchamp.net>

Chris Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
>>     
>>> "Depending upon how Oracle handles it, MySQL could be a minor player inside
>>> the company, or it could be set adrift."
>>>       
>> Seems kind of silly.  MySQL is a pretty strong brand name, and a good
>> path to moving up to Oracle's database if they're smart about it.
>>
>> --
>> Todd
>>     
>
> But, controlling MySQL doesn't really do them that much good. Selling
> services (which is where Oracle and IBM are, I think) makes lots of
> sense. RedHat can sell Linux without employing Linus. MySQL is a
> commodity, and Oracle doesn't need to spend resources on it for MySQL
> in order to sell services around it, when necessary.
>
> Chris
>   

Just got an announcement from Oracle for an Internet Seminar "Comparing 
Oracle to MySQL". Here's the description:

"As the global economy slows down, companies continue to look at 
alternative technologies that they feel are more cost effective and will 
save money on their bottom line. Learn why choosing an Oracle technology 
platform lowers the total cost of ownership for your company during this 
live, interactive one hour program. Tony Tarone, the Director of 
Operations at Cedar Document Technologies, will discuss how he gained a 
reliable, scalable, secure, and cost effective platform by moving from 
MySQL to Oracle"

Doesn't sound to me much like a company that's planning to leverage its 
newly acquired product...

-dc



From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Wed Apr 22 21:06:21 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:06:21 -0500
Subject: [Cialug]  OT Dish earth
In-Reply-To: <49EE423D.20308@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <20090423020627.271ABF6F2@www.cialug.org>

If any one here has Dish Network look for channel 212...
http://www.givetheworld.com/aboutEchoStar11.asp
-dh


From albus at iowaconnect.com  Thu Apr 23 11:37:23 2009
From: albus at iowaconnect.com (albus)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MySQL
Message-ID: <A91D0F000FAA4950A244EA5B5380C8A9@RayJ>

For those that have not seen this yet.

http://www.crn.com/software/217000210;jsessionid=CU5R0LWCOLZ3QQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN


From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr 23 12:12:58 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:12:58 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <A91D0F000FAA4950A244EA5B5380C8A9@RayJ>
References: <A91D0F000FAA4950A244EA5B5380C8A9@RayJ>
Message-ID: <49F0A19A.6090409@dchamp.net>

Here's one possibility: Sun is releasing these updates as a "last gasp", 
as all of the core MySQL developers are jumping ship.

The good news, sounds like Monty is trying to keep the core team 
together, and working with him on his fork of MySQL:

http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/04/to-be-free-or-not-to-be-free.html

-dc

albus wrote:
> For those that have not seen this yet.
>
> http://www.crn.com/software/217000210;jsessionid=CU5R0LWCOLZ3QQSNDLOSKH0CJUNN2JVN
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   



From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr 23 13:13:48 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:13:48 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
Message-ID: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>

Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04 
"Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM 
image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after 
downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers would 
be busy today or anything...

I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that VM on 
a daily basis anyway.

-dc



From ajeffri at n0nro.org  Thu Apr 23 13:17:44 2009
From: ajeffri at n0nro.org (Anthony Jeffries)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:17:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <57900.12.152.201.90.1240510664.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>

On Thu, April 23, 2009 13:13, David Champion wrote:
> Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
> "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
> image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
> downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers would
> be busy today or anything...
>
> I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that VM on
> a daily basis anyway.

I started updating a system at work this morning. I'll be lucky if it
finishes downloading before I leave work.

-- 
Tony Jeffries
ajeffri at n0nro.org
N0NRO at W0AK.#CIA.IA.USA.NOAM


From crazyjuggler at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 13:23:37 2009
From: crazyjuggler at gmail.com (TJ Vance)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:23:37 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>

I did the upgrade back at Beta1, I think the servers are just slammed
today.  Tried getting updates for an intrepid box today, also very slow.

TJ

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:

> Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
> "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
> image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
> downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers would
> be busy today or anything...
>
> I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that VM on
> a daily basis anyway.
>
> -dc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
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From dave at dchamp.net  Thu Apr 23 13:33:34 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:33:34 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>

Linux distros need to start using P2P for their update systems.

Mandriva uses torrents for their .iso downloads, some people complain 
that it's not fast enough... but for a "small" commercial distro like 
them, it would be impossible for them to have enough bandwidth to run a 
conventional FTP or HTTP server for downloading all of those .iso 
images, especially since they've gone to a larger DVD image.

I did find this site - and they have trackers for Ubuntu / Kubuntu 
9.04... I don't know anything about the site, but I'd at least do a md5 
check to make sure your image matches the official .iso.

http://linuxtracker.org/

-dc

TJ Vance wrote:
> I did the upgrade back at Beta1, I think the servers are just slammed 
> today.  Tried getting updates for an intrepid box today, also very slow.
>
> TJ
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net 
> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>
>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
>     "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
>     image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
>     downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers
>     would
>     be busy today or anything...
>
>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that
>     VM on
>     a daily basis anyway.
>
>     -dc
>



From timchampion at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 13:36:30 2009
From: timchampion at gmail.com (Tim Champion)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:36:30 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>

I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't broke
right now, so fixing isn't necessary.

Tim Champion
timchampion at gmail.com


On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:

> Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
> "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
> image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
> downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers would
> be busy today or anything...
>
> I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that VM on
> a daily basis anyway.
>
> -dc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
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From adk at 52761.com  Thu Apr 23 16:16:14 2009
From: adk at 52761.com (Allen Kiddoo)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:16:14 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MX tools
Message-ID: <678823f00904231416m576556e2td9110c5cfc00adcd@mail.gmail.com>

A friend was asking email questions today and I found this handy site-

http://www.mxtoolbox.com/

Allen Kiddoo

From nathan.smith at ipmvs.com  Thu Apr 23 16:26:31 2009
From: nathan.smith at ipmvs.com (Nathan C. Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:26:31 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MX tools
In-Reply-To: <678823f00904231416m576556e2td9110c5cfc00adcd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <678823f00904231416m576556e2td9110c5cfc00adcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1663@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>

Very cool, thanks for the link.

-Nate 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org 
> [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Allen Kiddoo
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:16 PM
> To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> Subject: [Cialug] MX tools
> 
> A friend was asking email questions today and I found this handy site-
> 
> http://www.mxtoolbox.com/
> 
> Allen Kiddoo
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> 

From tim_linux at wilson-home.com  Thu Apr 23 16:29:06 2009
From: tim_linux at wilson-home.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MX tools
In-Reply-To: <D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1663@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
References: <678823f00904231416m576556e2td9110c5cfc00adcd@mail.gmail.com>
	<D43921B1695991468329C1A7296519C05C465E1663@exchange2k7.ipmvs.com>
Message-ID: <5a9568c20904231429o899be77idb072668cc226c4a@mail.gmail.com>

Nice.  Ran against mchsi.com, and they're on a blacklist!

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Nathan C. Smith <nathan.smith at ipmvs.com>wrote:

> Very cool, thanks for the link.
>
> -Nate
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cialug-bounces at cialug.org
> > [mailto:cialug-bounces at cialug.org] On Behalf Of Allen Kiddoo
> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:16 PM
> > To: Central Iowa Linux Users Group
> > Subject: [Cialug] MX tools
> >
> > A friend was asking email questions today and I found this handy site-
> >
> > http://www.mxtoolbox.com/
> >
> > Allen Kiddoo
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cialug mailing list
> > Cialug at cialug.org
> > http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>



-- 
Tim
Required reading: http://bccplease.com/
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From inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com  Thu Apr 23 19:06:06 2009
From: inflatablesoulmate at brothersofchaos.com (Matt Stanton)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:06:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F1026E.9060400@brothersofchaos.com>

My netbook went out to grab 200+ MB of updates for the UNR release of 
jaunty... It managed to download about half the packages, then failed.  
I continued the install, then started the update again to get the 
remaining packages.  Was only able to get about 30KB/sec, while the 
connection at work normally pulls down around 200KB/sec.  So I just 
chalked it up to a busy day with a lot of computers automatically updating.

Tim Champion wrote:
> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't 
> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>
> Tim Champion
> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net 
> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>
>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
>     "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
>     image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
>     downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers
>     would
>     be busy today or anything...
>
>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that
>     VM on
>     a daily basis anyway.
>
>     -dc
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Cialug mailing list
>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Fri Apr 24 00:24:53 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:24:53 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <49F14D25.5000002@foxmediasystems.com>

You could also maintain a local apt-cache server to resolve your issues. 
Or just adopt earlier as I did (Alpha 3ish) :)

-Nick

David Champion wrote:
> Linux distros need to start using P2P for their update systems.
>
> Mandriva uses torrents for their .iso downloads, some people complain 
> that it's not fast enough... but for a "small" commercial distro like 
> them, it would be impossible for them to have enough bandwidth to run a 
> conventional FTP or HTTP server for downloading all of those .iso 
> images, especially since they've gone to a larger DVD image.
>
> I did find this site - and they have trackers for Ubuntu / Kubuntu 
> 9.04... I don't know anything about the site, but I'd at least do a md5 
> check to make sure your image matches the official .iso.
>
> http://linuxtracker.org/
>
> -dc
>
> TJ Vance wrote:
>   
>> I did the upgrade back at Beta1, I think the servers are just slammed 
>> today.  Tried getting updates for an intrepid box today, also very slow.
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net 
>> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
>>     "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
>>     image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
>>     downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers
>>     would
>>     be busy today or anything...
>>
>>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that
>>     VM on
>>     a daily basis anyway.
>>
>>     -dc
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Fri Apr 24 00:26:06 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:26:06 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>

This would not require a fresh install. You can still upgrade.

-Nick

Tim Champion wrote:
> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't 
> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>
> Tim Champion
> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net 
> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>
>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04
>     "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu 8.10 VM
>     image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server, after
>     downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the servers
>     would
>     be busy today or anything...
>
>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use that
>     VM on
>     a daily basis anyway.
>
>     -dc
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Cialug mailing list
>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu  Fri Apr 24 08:27:03 2009
From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:27:03 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
Message-ID: <200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>

From 8.04 would you have to do 2 upgrades? I.e., 8.04 -> 8.10 then 
8.10 -> 9.04?

On 2009-04-24 at 00:26:06, Nick Fox wrote:
>This would not require a fresh install. You can still upgrade.
>
>-Nick
>
>Tim Champion wrote:
>> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't
>> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>>
>> Tim Champion
>> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net
>> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10
>> to 9.04 "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu
>> 8.10 VM image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server,
>> after downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the
>> servers would
>>     be busy today or anything...
>>
>>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use
>> that VM on
>>     a daily basis anyway.
>>
>>     -dc
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Cialug mailing list
>>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
+1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA

From ajeffri at n0nro.org  Fri Apr 24 09:29:07 2009
From: ajeffri at n0nro.org (Anthony Jeffries)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:29:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
	<200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <60255.12.152.201.90.1240583347.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>

According to the documentation, yes.

I did this with my previously mentioned work computer. It went OK, but
since I have other niggling problems unrelated to this upgrade I will be
wiping and reinstalling.

On Fri, April 24, 2009 08:27, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> From 8.04 would you have to do 2 upgrades? I.e., 8.04 -> 8.10 then
> 8.10 -> 9.04?
>
> On 2009-04-24 at 00:26:06, Nick Fox wrote:
>>This would not require a fresh install. You can still upgrade.
>>
>>-Nick
>>
>>Tim Champion wrote:
>>> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't
>>> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>>>
>>> Tim Champion
>>> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net
>>> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10
>>> to 9.04 "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu
>>> 8.10 VM image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server,
>>> after downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the
>>> servers would
>>>     be busy today or anything...
>>>
>>>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use
>>> that VM on
>>>     a daily basis anyway.
>>>
>>>     -dc
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Cialug mailing list
>>>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>>>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cialug mailing list
>>> Cialug at cialug.org
>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Ramaley                            Dial Center 118, Drake University
> Network Programmer/Analyst             2407 Carpenter Ave
> +1 515 271-4540                        Des Moines IA 50311 USA
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>


-- 
Tony Jeffries
ajeffri at n0nro.org
N0NRO at W0AK.#CIA.IA.USA.NOAM


From cwfreeman at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 10:31:30 2009
From: cwfreeman at gmail.com (Chris Freeman)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:31:30 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <60255.12.152.201.90.1240583347.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
	<200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<60255.12.152.201.90.1240583347.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>
Message-ID: <3afd8deb0904240831s3088ec55t9500fb61946d4291@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Anthony Jeffries <ajeffri at n0nro.org> wrote:
> According to the documentation, yes.

I've upgraded a box from the Spring '04 dist to the Spring '07 (I
think; it was about 6 versions) dist. However, I will note that
upgrading (especially across multiple versions) might require you to
remove or replace some packages as the newer dists deprecate older
packages (usually in favor of new ones, but not always).

I've had great success with upgrading under Ubuntu, but as the rest of
your comment suggests, YMMV.

Chris

From dave at dchamp.net  Fri Apr 24 10:37:40 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:37:40 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <3afd8deb0904240831s3088ec55t9500fb61946d4291@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>	<200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>	<60255.12.152.201.90.1240583347.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>
	<3afd8deb0904240831s3088ec55t9500fb61946d4291@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F1DCC4.7030005@dchamp.net>

Chris Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Anthony Jeffries <ajeffri at n0nro.org> wrote:
>   
>> According to the documentation, yes.
>>     
>
> I've upgraded a box from the Spring '04 dist to the Spring '07 (I
> think; it was about 6 versions) dist. However, I will note that
> upgrading (especially across multiple versions) might require you to
> remove or replace some packages as the newer dists deprecate older
> packages (usually in favor of new ones, but not always).
>
> I've had great success with upgrading under Ubuntu, but as the rest of
> your comment suggests, YMMV.
>
> Chris
>   
... therefore, make sure you have a backup of anything important before 
you try to update. Over the many times I've done updates with several 
different distros, I've had all kinds of things break.

-dc



From nfox at foxmediasystems.com  Fri Apr 24 10:52:26 2009
From: nfox at foxmediasystems.com (Nick Fox)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
	<200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
Message-ID: <49F1E03A.6040107@foxmediasystems.com>

I think thats worst case. I'm pretty sure since 8.04 is LTS you can just do:
# sudo update-manager -c -d

(Assuming you have adesktop env installed)

If that doesn't work you can use:
sudo do-release-upgrade to go the 8.04 > 8.10 > 9.04 path.

-Nick

Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
> From 8.04 would you have to do 2 upgrades? I.e., 8.04 -> 8.10 then 
> 8.10 -> 9.04?
>
> On 2009-04-24 at 00:26:06, Nick Fox wrote:
>   
>> This would not require a fresh install. You can still upgrade.
>>
>> -Nick
>>
>> Tim Champion wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't
>>> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>>>
>>> Tim Champion
>>> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net
>>> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10
>>> to 9.04 "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu
>>> 8.10 VM image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server,
>>> after downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the
>>> servers would
>>>     be busy today or anything...
>>>
>>>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use
>>> that VM on
>>>     a daily basis anyway.
>>>
>>>     -dc
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Cialug mailing list
>>>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>>>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cialug mailing list
>>> Cialug at cialug.org
>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>>       
>
>   


-- 
Nick Fox

Fox Media Systems, LLC
Owner / President
1338 57th St.
Des Moines, IA 50311
www.foxmediasystems.com


From ajeffri at n0nro.org  Fri Apr 24 10:58:24 2009
From: ajeffri at n0nro.org (Anthony Jeffries)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:58:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F1E03A.6040107@foxmediasystems.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<7aa1cdb20904231136n20b50245l3e4d1773ff118719@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F14D6E.1030705@foxmediasystems.com>
	<200904240827.03761.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu>
	<49F1E03A.6040107@foxmediasystems.com>
Message-ID: <42968.12.152.201.90.1240588704.squirrel@betelgeuse.n0nro.org>

This page:

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading

has instructions for upgrading from the command line (under the network
upgrade for servers section) for upgrading from 8.10 to 9.04.

However, upgrading from 8.04 to 8.10 has an extra step. 8.04 will only
offer upgrades to the next long-term support release by default. Use the
directions on this page:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IntrepidUpgrades

to do that upgrade.

On Fri, April 24, 2009 10:52, Nick Fox wrote:
> I think thats worst case. I'm pretty sure since 8.04 is LTS you can just
> do:
> # sudo update-manager -c -d
>
> (Assuming you have adesktop env installed)
>
> If that doesn't work you can use:
> sudo do-release-upgrade to go the 8.04 > 8.10 > 9.04 path.
>
> -Nick
>
> Daniel A. Ramaley wrote:
>> From 8.04 would you have to do 2 upgrades? I.e., 8.04 -> 8.10 then
>> 8.10 -> 9.04?
>>
>> On 2009-04-24 at 00:26:06, Nick Fox wrote:
>>
>>> This would not require a fresh install. You can still upgrade.
>>>
>>> -Nick
>>>
>>> Tim Champion wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm on 8.04 at work, so I'd have to do a fresh install.  It ain't
>>>> broke right now, so fixing isn't necessary.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Champion
>>>> timchampion at gmail.com <mailto:timchampion at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:13 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net
>>>> <mailto:dave at dchamp.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Just curious, have any of you tried to update your Ubuntu 8.10
>>>> to 9.04 "Jaunty Jackalope" today? I attempted to update my Kubuntu
>>>> 8.10 VM image, and it said it had trouble talking to the server,
>>>> after downloading the update packages. I can't imagine that the
>>>> servers would
>>>>     be busy today or anything...
>>>>
>>>>     I'll probably just wait a while and try it again. I don't use
>>>> that VM on
>>>>     a daily basis anyway.
>>>>
>>>>     -dc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     Cialug mailing list
>>>>     Cialug at cialug.org <mailto:Cialug at cialug.org>
>>>>     http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cialug mailing list
>>>> Cialug at cialug.org
>>>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nick Fox
>
> Fox Media Systems, LLC
> Owner / President
> 1338 57th St.
> Des Moines, IA 50311
> www.foxmediasystems.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>


-- 
Tony Jeffries
ajeffri at n0nro.org
N0NRO at W0AK.#CIA.IA.USA.NOAM


From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 24 12:53:01 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:53:01 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] MySQL
In-Reply-To: <49F0A19A.6090409@dchamp.net>
References: <A91D0F000FAA4950A244EA5B5380C8A9@RayJ>
	<49F0A19A.6090409@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241053u49ba330fra1a5c9c0210e3a8f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:12 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> Here's one possibility: Sun is releasing these updates as a "last gasp",
> as all of the core MySQL developers are jumping ship.
>

There's also a major MySQL conference going on this week.
http://www.mysqlconf.com/mysql2009/public/content/home

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From matthew.nuzum at canonical.com  Fri Apr 24 13:04:21 2009
From: matthew.nuzum at canonical.com (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:04:21 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:33 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> Linux distros need to start using P2P for their update systems.
>
> Mandriva uses torrents for their .iso downloads, some people complain
> that it's not fast enough... but for a "small" commercial distro like
> them, it would be impossible for them to have enough bandwidth to run a
> conventional FTP or HTTP server for downloading all of those .iso
> images, especially since they've gone to a larger DVD image.
>

We don't flip the switch on ubuntu until there at least 60 high speed
mirrors with all the populated continents well represented. Starting
with 8.10 we did put the link to the torrents on the download page and
we do support them, but for usability reasons we don't promote them.

This summer we'll implement geoip to auto-detect a good mirror which
should simplify things and even out the bandwidth distribution.

That said, I downloaded the UNR image from a US mirror in 4 hours last
night so if you're still having problems try a different mirror.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From dave at dchamp.net  Fri Apr 24 13:21:48 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:21:48 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>

Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:33 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
>   
>> Linux distros need to start using P2P for their update systems.
>>
>> Mandriva uses torrents for their .iso downloads, some people complain
>> that it's not fast enough... but for a "small" commercial distro like
>> them, it would be impossible for them to have enough bandwidth to run a
>> conventional FTP or HTTP server for downloading all of those .iso
>> images, especially since they've gone to a larger DVD image.
>>
>>     
>
> We don't flip the switch on ubuntu until there at least 60 high speed
> mirrors with all the populated continents well represented. Starting
> with 8.10 we did put the link to the torrents on the download page and
> we do support them, but for usability reasons we don't promote them.
>
> This summer we'll implement geoip to auto-detect a good mirror which
> should simplify things and even out the bandwidth distribution.
>
> That said, I downloaded the UNR image from a US mirror in 4 hours last
> night so if you're still having problems try a different mirror.
>
>   
I fired it off again this morning, it's been varying between 20 and 
100kB, should be done downloading before I go home... I did have to try 
starting the update-notifier twice, but the 2nd time it worked just 
fine, could have been because the VM's network connection wasn't awake, 
did a ping then it worked the 2nd time...

The mirror thing is nice, if you can get people to mirror for you (and 
Ubuntu has the momentum to be able to do that now), just seems to me 
that if it were done right, a distributed P2P system would be lot more 
efficient, and you wouldn't have to worry about having one mirror more 
overloaded while other mirrors sit idle.

-dc



From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 13:37:26 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904241137t4145e454s46a22c8bb162ddbe@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> The mirror thing is nice, if you can get people to mirror for you (and
> Ubuntu has the momentum to be able to do that now), just seems to me
> that if it were done right, a distributed P2P system would be lot more
> efficient, and you wouldn't have to worry about having one mirror more
> overloaded while other mirrors sit idle.

You could probably build in load balancing along with mirror
selection.  Akamai can do it.

--
Todd

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 24 13:37:23 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> The mirror thing is nice, if you can get people to mirror for you (and
> Ubuntu has the momentum to be able to do that now), just seems to me
> that if it were done right, a distributed P2P system would be lot more
> efficient, and you wouldn't have to worry about having one mirror more
> overloaded while other mirrors sit idle.
>

Yeah, I've thought about it often. The problem is that most people
don't have p2p software on their pc. :-( It just doesn't work to say,
"Want to get Ubuntu? Great, first follow these 11 steps then click the
link below..."

It's just a little bit ironic that for Linux users it really would be
a one step process since BT software is installed by default. But
ubuntu.com is visited mostly by Windows users so I have to cater to
them.

My mandate from the very beginning has been to make it as easy as
possible to download Ubuntu. This translates into huge cost savings
since the alternative is ShipIt, the free CD mailing service we run.

This has me thinking... the bandwidth capacity of the US post office
is staggering, even though the latency is high.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From dave at dchamp.net  Fri Apr 24 13:44:20 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:44:20 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>

Matthew Nuzum wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:21 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
>   
>> The mirror thing is nice, if you can get people to mirror for you (and
>> Ubuntu has the momentum to be able to do that now), just seems to me
>> that if it were done right, a distributed P2P system would be lot more
>> efficient, and you wouldn't have to worry about having one mirror more
>> overloaded while other mirrors sit idle.
>>
>>     
>
> Yeah, I've thought about it often. The problem is that most people
> don't have p2p software on their pc. :-( It just doesn't work to say,
> "Want to get Ubuntu? Great, first follow these 11 steps then click the
> link below..."
>
> It's just a little bit ironic that for Linux users it really would be
> a one step process since BT software is installed by default. But
> ubuntu.com is visited mostly by Windows users so I have to cater to
> them.
>
> My mandate from the very beginning has been to make it as easy as
> possible to download Ubuntu. This translates into huge cost savings
> since the alternative is ShipIt, the free CD mailing service we run.
>
> This has me thinking... the bandwidth capacity of the US post office
> is staggering, even though the latency is high.
>
>   
I'm thinking more along the lines of having the Distribution Upgrade 
tool have a built-in P2P client. Maybe it already does?

Mandriva takes a more hard-nosed approach for their downloads - they 
used to only offer BT trackers for their .iso downloads, and if you 
couldn't do that for technical reasons, you had to contact tech support 
and they'd give you FTP access. I'm guessing that probably kept a few 
people away from using their distro.

-dc



From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 24 13:44:22 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:44:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904241137t4145e454s46a22c8bb162ddbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<e1d8c6520904241137t4145e454s46a22c8bb162ddbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241144s6bac6e5erd47fae6262fbce9c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You could probably build in load balancing along with mirror
> selection. ?Akamai can do it.
>

Yes, but I can only do it at a very rudimentary level. I really don't
get any automatic communication from the mirrors. I know their
reported total bandwidth capacity and our mirror prober updates the
list of mirrors semi-daily or around release time about hourly. So
when we overload a mirror (or in some cases we've overloaded entire
countries) they automatically fall off the list of available mirrors.

So what I can do is if I determine a user is from German and there are
three mirrors in Germany, one with 10Gb/s, one with 2Gb/s and one with
1Gb/s I can weight it so that the 10G is 10x more likely to be
selected than the 1GB which is half as likely to show up as 2Gb.

It is not true load balancing though.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 24 13:45:48 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:45:48 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
> I'm thinking more along the lines of having the Distribution Upgrade
> tool have a built-in P2P client. Maybe it already does?
>

Ah, I see. Sorry for mis-understanding. Sometimes I have a one-track
mind. There is geographic distribution provided by round-robbin dns
and country aliases. It is not p2p though. Interesting idea.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From newz at bearfruit.org  Fri Apr 24 13:49:38 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:49:38 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net> wrote:
>> I'm thinking more along the lines of having the Distribution Upgrade
>> tool have a built-in P2P client. Maybe it already does?
>>
>
> It is not p2p though. Interesting idea.
>

Just found: http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/

In case you haven't noticed, this is a topic that interests me.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter

From tom at tcpconsulting.com  Fri Apr 24 13:56:58 2009
From: tom at tcpconsulting.com (Tom Pohl)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:56:58 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <824D7590-75CE-45BD-9083-72FDE51F18F8@tcpconsulting.com>

I really like what CentOS does with their fastest mirror plugin for yum.

http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=118

The neat part is that it distributes the load based upon throughput  
and not geography which makes sense because I don't care to talk to  
the server down the street if one in europe would be faster.

-Tom



On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Matthew Nuzum wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org>  
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, David Champion <dave at dchamp.net>  
>> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking more along the lines of having the Distribution Upgrade
>>> tool have a built-in P2P client. Maybe it already does?
>>>
>>
>> It is not p2p though. Interesting idea.
>>
>
> Just found: http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/
>
> In case you haven't noticed, this is a topic that interests me.
>
> -- 
> Matthew Nuzum
> newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug


From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 14:04:49 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:04:49 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Matthew Nuzum <newz at bearfruit.org> wrote:
> Just found: http://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/

Back in the day, there was a way to use apt over Freenet.

--
Todd

From nathanism at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 14:09:00 2009
From: nathanism at gmail.com (Nathan Stien)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:09:00 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<873ca6ce0904231123h6a769411kb298703ea7d4a20d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com> 
	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Todd Walton <tdwalton at gmail.com> wrote:

> Back in the day, there was a way to use apt over Freenet.
>

Are you saying that back in the day there was a way to use Freenet at all?
 ;-)
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From tdwalton at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 15:07:59 2009
From: tdwalton at gmail.com (Todd Walton)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:07:59 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net> <49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>
	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Nathan Stien <nathanism at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you saying that back in the day there was a way to use Freenet at all?

Certainly!  It was a little painful, but I kept up a "flog" for a
while.  Jolly fun.

--
Todd

From dave at dchamp.net  Fri Apr 24 15:56:24 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:56:24 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>
	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>
	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>

Got my Kubuntu 8.10 -> 9.04 update completed.

Nathan, one of the first things I noticed is the default clock widget 
now displays the time in 12 hr AM/PM time format instead of 24 hr 
format. There still isn't an option in the gui to change it... I can't 
tell you if those other issues have been addressed for you, but at least 
you can have your clock the way you want it. :)

-dc



From kevin at linuxsmith.com  Sun Apr 26 21:42:31 2009
From: kevin at linuxsmith.com (Kevin C. Smith)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:42:31 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Jaunty?
In-Reply-To: <49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>

I just did a fresh install on my Dell Inspiron E1505. I had a large
partition with Windows on it that I never used and wanted it back. I
went with ext4 also; just for fun. Everything worked out of box except
for some annoying pc speaker bell when shutting down and when tabbing,
which I kill like this:

sudo sh -c 'echo blacklist pcspkr > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-custom.conf'

and this also:

sudo vim /etc/inputrc
uncomment ?set bell-style none?

From robarooney at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 13:34:22 2009
From: robarooney at gmail.com (Rob Miller)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:34:22 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] OT - 512 MB laptop chip
Message-ID: <1a1c07bd0904271134sa79da82g90af0d1365523b76@mail.gmail.com>

I updated my son's Dell Latitude 1525 laptop and I have a left-over, 512 MB
chip (originally in the laptop when we bought it new from Dell) that I'd be
happy to give away to anyone on the user group list.
It is a ProMOS 512 MD 2Rx16 DDR2 667MHx CL5 pc2 - 5300S.

Just respond to this message and then send me a padded, self-addressed
envelop with postage and I'll send you the chip.

Thanks.

Rob Miller
1549 Nine Iron Drive
West Des Moines, Iowa 50266
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From icepuck2k at mchsi.com  Tue Apr 28 19:42:04 2009
From: icepuck2k at mchsi.com (Dan Hockey)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:42:04 -0500
Subject: [Cialug]  mandriva
In-Reply-To: <49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com><49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>
	<49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>
Message-ID: <83EB9BDA971D411A974153A20C7C824A@toshibauser>


Does 2009 still have the ability to do network install's the way 2007 use to
do?
-dh


From dave at dchamp.net  Wed Apr 29 09:50:10 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:50:10 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] mandriva
In-Reply-To: <83EB9BDA971D411A974153A20C7C824A@toshibauser>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com><49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>	<49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>
	<83EB9BDA971D411A974153A20C7C824A@toshibauser>
Message-ID: <49F86922.6030804@dchamp.net>

The wiki sez yes:

http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux#Installation_from_a_local_mirror.2C_hard_disk.2C_local_network.2C_or_the_Internet

-dc

Dan Hockey wrote:
> Does 2009 still have the ability to do network install's the way 2007 use to
> do?
> -dh
>   



From dave at dchamp.net  Wed Apr 29 09:56:56 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:56:56 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] mandriva
In-Reply-To: <49F86922.6030804@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com><49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>	<49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>	<83EB9BDA971D411A974153A20C7C824A@toshibauser>
	<49F86922.6030804@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <49F86AB8.1010202@dchamp.net>

BTW, Mandriva 2009.1 "Spring" edition is supposed to be released today, 
which translated from French means "in a few days from now" as you can 
see from the release schedule here:

http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.1_Development

This release should be fairly similar to Ubuntu Jaunty Jackelope as far 
as versions of new stuff, like KDE 4.2, and includes similar boot speed 
optimizations.

-dc

David Champion wrote:
> The wiki sez yes:
>
> http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux#Installation_from_a_local_mirror.2C_hard_disk.2C_local_network.2C_or_the_Internet
>
> -dc
>
> Dan Hockey wrote:
>   
>> Does 2009 still have the ability to do network install's the way 2007 use to
>> do?
>> -dh
>>   
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   



From dave at dchamp.net  Wed Apr 29 21:06:52 2009
From: dave at dchamp.net (David Champion)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:06:52 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] mandriva
In-Reply-To: <49F86AB8.1010202@dchamp.net>
References: <49F0AFDC.20103@dchamp.net>	<49F0B47E.2050007@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241104p5d76cc46q6d2383deaadaa3ae@mail.gmail.com>	<49F2033C.7080207@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241137o220e5ee0u499bd79cad1836d0@mail.gmail.com>	<49F20884.2090902@dchamp.net>	<f3c0b4080904241145k6c84e4b2t9e81b0804cc0ecca@mail.gmail.com>	<f3c0b4080904241149s53b67b85h8541d775b0fe0d95@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241204k6d77642cl68e867a05e1e993d@mail.gmail.com>	<8b490d600904241209t1f5edb8doa919f48fe97e6c77@mail.gmail.com>	<e1d8c6520904241307l4df59782p23bb8aed3b83eaab@mail.gmail.com><49F22778.9050704@dchamp.net>	<49F51B97.7090609@linuxsmith.com>	<83EB9BDA971D411A974153A20C7C824A@toshibauser>	<49F86922.6030804@dchamp.net>
	<49F86AB8.1010202@dchamp.net>
Message-ID: <49F907BC.7010605@dchamp.net>

I guess I'm eating crow... it's ready for download on time.

http://www2.mandriva.com/linux/one/

-dc

David Champion wrote:
> BTW, Mandriva 2009.1 "Spring" edition is supposed to be released today, 
> which translated from French means "in a few days from now" as you can 
> see from the release schedule here:
>
> http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.1_Development
>
> This release should be fairly similar to Ubuntu Jaunty Jackelope as far 
> as versions of new stuff, like KDE 4.2, and includes similar boot speed 
> optimizations.
>
> -dc
>
> David Champion wrote:
>   
>> The wiki sez yes:
>>
>> http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux#Installation_from_a_local_mirror.2C_hard_disk.2C_local_network.2C_or_the_Internet
>>
>> -dc
>>
>> Dan Hockey wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Does 2009 still have the ability to do network install's the way 2007 use to
>>> do?
>>> -dh
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cialug mailing list
>> Cialug at cialug.org
>> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cialug mailing list
> Cialug at cialug.org
> http://cialug.org/mailman/listinfo/cialug
>
>   


From cmlburnett at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 21:42:34 2009
From: cmlburnett at gmail.com (Colin Burnett)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:42:34 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] BMKL?
Message-ID: <e3686ee50904291942p35a6fe49keeb7ffa10a228950@mail.gmail.com>

So my Creative Zen mp3 player died so I ripped it apart.  The 5GB
seagate drive has a CF 2 form factor so when I popped it in fdisk
doesn't recognize it.  A 2 block dd dump shows the first four chars
are BMKL.  The best I found was Berkeley Multimedia Kernel Library but
that seems like an odd thing to start a drive volume with.

Any ideas if I can find anything to mount this?  I don't need to
recover anything so I ultimately don't care if I can get it mounted,
more for fun.


Colin Burnett

From lowmaine at mchsi.com  Thu Apr 30 21:16:47 2009
From: lowmaine at mchsi.com (Randle Boyd)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 02:16:47 +0000
Subject: [Cialug] Linux on PS2/3
Message-ID: <050120090216.6508.49FA5B8F0003A5E60000196C223245003003010CD2079C080C03BF0A02070E03990104@mchsi.com>

Is anyone running Linx on a Play Station 2 or 3?  If so, how is the performance?  

Thanks,
Randle
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From newz at bearfruit.org  Thu Apr 30 21:52:49 2009
From: newz at bearfruit.org (Matthew Nuzum)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:52:49 -0500
Subject: [Cialug] Linux on PS2/3
In-Reply-To: <050120090216.6508.49FA5B8F0003A5E60000196C223245003003010CD2079C080C03BF0A02070E03990104@mchsi.com>
References: <050120090216.6508.49FA5B8F0003A5E60000196C223245003003010CD2079C080C03BF0A02070E03990104@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <f3c0b4080904301952hd2d66q1d9d5dec4515d1a2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Randle Boyd <lowmaine at mchsi.com> wrote:
> Is anyone running Linx on a Play Station 2 or 3?? If so, how is the
> performance?
>

Some of my co-workers have run Linux on the PS3. They say the cell
processor is not optimized for desktop use and are disappointed with
the performance.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode, skype, linkedin, identi.ca and twitter